8 ms·

This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV2NcyX7pk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AV2NcyX7pk is insane. Elon's Boring Company is a joke in comparison.

firebaze 2y ago
Fascinating. Thanks for that link.
tim333 2y ago
Elon's company is targeting different things - cheap and fast, unlike the company in the video doing technically hard but probably not cheap.
- esalman 2y ago
  Is fast and cheap always better though.
  - jfoutz 2y ago
    Fast. Fast always wins. Trying something, regardless of outcome teaches something about the world. The more trials, the more you roll the dice, the more you learn. I really hate being wrong, but it is much better to be wrong a lot, and quickly understand why. The alternative is to try nothing. It’s kinda sad.
    - 0xFF0123 2y ago
      It does depend on the domain though. Sometimes moving slowly and carefully can result in a faster successful outcome than throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
    - KingOfCoders 2y ago
      Yes, sure fast wins when building a bridge. Or a tunnel. Which then collapses. Safe wins, this is not Facebook where people share some holiday pictures. "but it is much better to be wrong a lot" I disagree, "Oh the bridge collapesed, I was wrong! But this is much better than being right" - Nope.
      - trelane 2y ago
        If you're opposed to fast and cheap, I have great news for you about the cost and pace of construction in the US.
        jajko 2y ago
        ... which has its own reasons, namely regulations (you know, every time there was a new disaster they added another one) or maybe some corruption. You don't see bridges falling in US regularly killing tons of folks, do you. I am not saying its ideal and there is no room for improvement, nothing in real world is, but please consider other, 'fast' scenarios for long term (100+ years) existence when not only many lives are at stake.
        trelane 2y ago
        > You don't see bridges falling in US regularly killing tons of folks, do you. Falling yes. Killing is hit-or miss. I would be surprised if the reasons bridges are failing due to lack of maintenance is entirely unrelated to the cost of building. There are many ways things could be better, and many ways things could be worse. Attacking something only because it's cheaper and faster seems silly.
        jajko 2y ago
        Please share a single recent example from US, I am only aware of one relatively recent catastrophic case from northern Italy, where maintenance was subpar. Cheaper reflects many things, overall quality testing, attention to detail, how much effort went into design etc. Its not a silver bullet but oh boy does it always show on result, without exception.
        trelane 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_colla... was not 2 months ago. > Its not a silver bullet but oh boy does it always show on result, without exception. Permit me to show you an exception! This watch is USD59: https://www.target.com/p/men-39-s-timex-expedition-scout-watch-with-nylon-strap-gray-black-green-t49961jt/-/A-17287304 https://www.target.com/p/men-39-s-timex-expedition-scout-wat... This watch is GBP225: https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/a-perfectly-useless-evening https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/a-perfectly-useless-even... There are even more extreme examples, e.g. the watch from Richistan.
    - Ntrails 2y ago
      > The more trials, the more you roll the dice, the more you learn. If you have infinite dice rolls this is obviously true. If every dice roll costs you something or indeed everything... heh. Maybe don't just roll it to see what happens?
    - acdha 2y ago
      Fast wins for something like mobile apps but not infrastructure where safety matters and you can’t just shrug off liability. The Boring Company is a great example: fast to market themselves but almost all of their projects have fallen through.
      - vlovich123 2y ago
        Iteration always wins. There may be other constraining factors, but if you can violate those to iterate more (i.e. cheat), you’ll beat your competitors who honor those constraints. This has nothing to do with the success or failure of any given company.
        wizzwizz4 2y ago
        > but if you can violate those to iterate more (i.e. cheat), you’ll beat your competitors who honor those constraints. Until people die. Then suddenly, you can't cheat any more. And everybody else has to live with your decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Thiokol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Thiokol I wouldn't call that winning.
        vlovich123 2y ago
        You seem to have misunderstood what I’m saying. Iteration is how you learn. Learning through iteration, which is known under various names like Wright’s law or more generally experience curve effects [1], goes hand in hand with economies of scale in driving down costs. Yes, iteration requires you to survive. Not sure how that’s relevant. Cutting corners also isn’t necessarily a bad thing - you’re focusing on the extreme example where people die. Cutting corners can also be a careful evaluation of what processes are and aren’t relevant to a given situation but that becomes trickier when it’s enshrined in law. Imagine if guidelines from the 80s about how to write software were enshrined in law. Regulations more often than not do ignore the flip side in terms of the cost of compliance because it’s difficult to show the counter factual universe in which a regulation may save 10% more lives (or maybe even 0% more lives) but drove up costs by 100x. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects
  - mananaysiempre 2y ago
    Depends on the application, but commodifying (easier instances of) things that previously required bespoke engineering is a legitimate pursuit.
- jounker 2y ago
  Move fast and break things runs into problems when “break things” translates to collapsed tunnels.
  - idiotsecant 2y ago
    The boring company isn't move fast and break things. They literally just bought a drill and use it like any other construction company. There's no innovation at all.
    - doctor_eval 2y ago
      Well the innovation appears to be, drill smaller holes faster, and put less traffic through them. Brilliant!
    - tim333 2y ago
      They started that way, just buying a drill, but are now trying to innovate and build their own one. They are just starting using Prufrock-3. The Prufrocks are machines the Boring company have made themselves. They say "Prufrock's medium-term goal is to exceed 1/10 of human walking speed, which is 7 miles per day." which is way faster than anyone else. The Swiss machine in the video did 400m in 4 months. They are also experimenting with evacuated tunnels (https://youtu.be/nV07jqwCy0A?t=879 https://youtu.be/nV07jqwCy0A?t=879) which may not go anywhere but is at least an attempt at innovation.
      - sschueller 2y ago
        "7 miles per day" is all talk and no proof it can actually be done. The Swiss dig a lot of holes from easy to very complex terrain. If there was an easy way go that much faster they would. There was a derailment of a cargo train the the Gotthard base tunnel last year [1]. It caused a huge amount of damage and one tunnel will be close until September this year. They need to replace 7km of track. If there way anyone to do this correctly faster they would as it is costing millions not having this route open. Concrete needs time to cure etc. some things you can't just make faster because someone said so. [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/gotthard-base-tunnel-to-fully-resume-service-in-september-2024/48945910 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/gotthard-base-tunnel-t...
- Teever 2y ago
  Is The Boring Company actually targetting anything? Or was it just a silly idea that Musk threw some money at and they've been struggling to justify their existence ever since?
  - tim333 2y ago
    Their website has: >The mission: solve traffic, enable rapid point-to-point transportation and transform cities via cheap tunnels. Maybe they won't get there but it's an interesting goal.
tifik 2y ago
They use a tunnel boring machine to bore a tunnel with a 45° slope. They do go into the mechanics of how they make this insanely massive machine drive up a grade that steep, and how they ensure it doesn't slide backward. I was glued to the screen more than with most movies. If you like channels like Practical Engineering, you will enjoy this.
- em-bee 2y ago
  I was glued to the screen more than with most movies i was going to say something similar. this was better than the action movie i saw earlier.
  - etrautmann 2y ago
    Agreed - most interesting YouTube video I’ve seen in many months.
- baq 2y ago
  I watched this at 2x expecting a mildly interesting educational video. This was a mistake. Almost forgot to blink.

firebaze 2y ago

Fascinating. Thanks for that link.

tim333 2y ago

Elon's company is targeting different things - cheap and fast, unlike the company in the video doing technically hard but probably not cheap.

esalman 2y ago
Is fast and cheap always better though.
- jfoutz 2y ago
  Fast. Fast always wins. Trying something, regardless of outcome teaches something about the world. The more trials, the more you roll the dice, the more you learn. I really hate being wrong, but it is much better to be wrong a lot, and quickly understand why. The alternative is to try nothing. It’s kinda sad.
  - 0xFF0123 2y ago
    It does depend on the domain though. Sometimes moving slowly and carefully can result in a faster successful outcome than throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
  - KingOfCoders 2y ago
    Yes, sure fast wins when building a bridge. Or a tunnel. Which then collapses. Safe wins, this is not Facebook where people share some holiday pictures. "but it is much better to be wrong a lot" I disagree, "Oh the bridge collapesed, I was wrong! But this is much better than being right" - Nope.
    - trelane 2y ago
      If you're opposed to fast and cheap, I have great news for you about the cost and pace of construction in the US.
      - jajko 2y ago
        ... which has its own reasons, namely regulations (you know, every time there was a new disaster they added another one) or maybe some corruption. You don't see bridges falling in US regularly killing tons of folks, do you. I am not saying its ideal and there is no room for improvement, nothing in real world is, but please consider other, 'fast' scenarios for long term (100+ years) existence when not only many lives are at stake.
        trelane 2y ago
        > You don't see bridges falling in US regularly killing tons of folks, do you. Falling yes. Killing is hit-or miss. I would be surprised if the reasons bridges are failing due to lack of maintenance is entirely unrelated to the cost of building. There are many ways things could be better, and many ways things could be worse. Attacking something only because it's cheaper and faster seems silly.
        jajko 2y ago
        Please share a single recent example from US, I am only aware of one relatively recent catastrophic case from northern Italy, where maintenance was subpar. Cheaper reflects many things, overall quality testing, attention to detail, how much effort went into design etc. Its not a silver bullet but oh boy does it always show on result, without exception.
        trelane 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_colla... was not 2 months ago. > Its not a silver bullet but oh boy does it always show on result, without exception. Permit me to show you an exception! This watch is USD59: https://www.target.com/p/men-39-s-timex-expedition-scout-watch-with-nylon-strap-gray-black-green-t49961jt/-/A-17287304 https://www.target.com/p/men-39-s-timex-expedition-scout-wat... This watch is GBP225: https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/a-perfectly-useless-evening https://mrjoneswatches.com/products/a-perfectly-useless-even... There are even more extreme examples, e.g. the watch from Richistan.
  - Ntrails 2y ago
    > The more trials, the more you roll the dice, the more you learn. If you have infinite dice rolls this is obviously true. If every dice roll costs you something or indeed everything... heh. Maybe don't just roll it to see what happens?
  - acdha 2y ago
    Fast wins for something like mobile apps but not infrastructure where safety matters and you can’t just shrug off liability. The Boring Company is a great example: fast to market themselves but almost all of their projects have fallen through.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      Iteration always wins. There may be other constraining factors, but if you can violate those to iterate more (i.e. cheat), you’ll beat your competitors who honor those constraints. This has nothing to do with the success or failure of any given company.
      - wizzwizz4 2y ago
        > but if you can violate those to iterate more (i.e. cheat), you’ll beat your competitors who honor those constraints. Until people die. Then suddenly, you can't cheat any more. And everybody else has to live with your decisions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Thiokol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton_Thiokol I wouldn't call that winning.
        vlovich123 2y ago
        You seem to have misunderstood what I’m saying. Iteration is how you learn. Learning through iteration, which is known under various names like Wright’s law or more generally experience curve effects [1], goes hand in hand with economies of scale in driving down costs. Yes, iteration requires you to survive. Not sure how that’s relevant. Cutting corners also isn’t necessarily a bad thing - you’re focusing on the extreme example where people die. Cutting corners can also be a careful evaluation of what processes are and aren’t relevant to a given situation but that becomes trickier when it’s enshrined in law. Imagine if guidelines from the 80s about how to write software were enshrined in law. Regulations more often than not do ignore the flip side in terms of the cost of compliance because it’s difficult to show the counter factual universe in which a regulation may save 10% more lives (or maybe even 0% more lives) but drove up costs by 100x. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_curve_effects
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  Depends on the application, but commodifying (easier instances of) things that previously required bespoke engineering is a legitimate pursuit.
jounker 2y ago
Move fast and break things runs into problems when “break things” translates to collapsed tunnels.
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  The boring company isn't move fast and break things. They literally just bought a drill and use it like any other construction company. There's no innovation at all.
  - doctor_eval 2y ago
    Well the innovation appears to be, drill smaller holes faster, and put less traffic through them. Brilliant!
  - tim333 2y ago
    They started that way, just buying a drill, but are now trying to innovate and build their own one. They are just starting using Prufrock-3. The Prufrocks are machines the Boring company have made themselves. They say "Prufrock's medium-term goal is to exceed 1/10 of human walking speed, which is 7 miles per day." which is way faster than anyone else. The Swiss machine in the video did 400m in 4 months. They are also experimenting with evacuated tunnels (https://youtu.be/nV07jqwCy0A?t=879 https://youtu.be/nV07jqwCy0A?t=879) which may not go anywhere but is at least an attempt at innovation.
    - sschueller 2y ago
      "7 miles per day" is all talk and no proof it can actually be done. The Swiss dig a lot of holes from easy to very complex terrain. If there was an easy way go that much faster they would. There was a derailment of a cargo train the the Gotthard base tunnel last year [1]. It caused a huge amount of damage and one tunnel will be close until September this year. They need to replace 7km of track. If there way anyone to do this correctly faster they would as it is costing millions not having this route open. Concrete needs time to cure etc. some things you can't just make faster because someone said so. [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/gotthard-base-tunnel-to-fully-resume-service-in-september-2024/48945910 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/gotthard-base-tunnel-t...
Teever 2y ago
Is The Boring Company actually targetting anything? Or was it just a silly idea that Musk threw some money at and they've been struggling to justify their existence ever since?
- tim333 2y ago
  Their website has: >The mission: solve traffic, enable rapid point-to-point transportation and transform cities via cheap tunnels. Maybe they won't get there but it's an interesting goal.

tifik 2y ago

They use a tunnel boring machine to bore a tunnel with a 45° slope. They do go into the mechanics of how they make this insanely massive machine drive up a grade that steep, and how they ensure it doesn't slide backward. I was glued to the screen more than with most movies. If you like channels like Practical Engineering, you will enjoy this.

em-bee 2y ago
I was glued to the screen more than with most movies i was going to say something similar. this was better than the action movie i saw earlier.
- etrautmann 2y ago
  Agreed - most interesting YouTube video I’ve seen in many months.
baq 2y ago
I watched this at 2x expecting a mildly interesting educational video. This was a mistake. Almost forgot to blink.