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> Kids don’t need to see digital advertisements to make a decision. They need access to a library stocked with recently published books that kids will enjoy. A

> Kids don’t need to see digital advertisements to make a decision. They need access to a library stocked with recently published books that kids will enjoy. At 9 I had no idea how to go into a massive thing like a library and make a selection for myself. "Word of mouth" made a lot of choices for me when I was young.

MisterTea 2y ago
In the NYC public libraries there are kids sections where you just walk around and look at books. If something seems interesting then pick it up and read it. I preferred things with technical pictures so the kids section was quite boring.
triceratops 2y ago
Weird. At 9 I randomly picked whatever looked interesting. If I liked it, I proceeded to read every single other thing by that author. There was no "word of mouth" because I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
  When I was that age my teacher had a thing where reading something like 3 books got you out of a lot of homework and your parent had to sign a paper listing what you read and you turned it in. As a kid who already hated school, and used reading as an escape from a pretty shit childhood, I was clocking in 5 books a week. The teacher first accused my parents of lying that I read that many books, because it quickly got to double digits, but I was able to summarize all of them off the top of my head, so instead I was just forbidden from doing it altogether. Not sure what the lesson is there, lol.
  - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
    > The teacher first accused my parents of lying that I read that many books, because it quickly got to double digits, but I was able to summarize all of them off the top of my head, so instead I was just forbidden from doing it altogether. > Not sure what the lesson is there, lol. Lessons learned: a) Incentives matter (economy 101) b) If a market offers possibilities for arbitrage, market participants will attempt to make use of them. c) By market laws, arbitrage opportunities will close very fast, so in the long term, markets can be assumed to be arbitrage-free. d) Goodhart's law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. e) Authorities (or those in power) will attempt to cheat you. Don't trust them.
    - hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
      Oh I mean what was the intended lesson from the teacher. Read less?
      - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
        > Oh I mean what was the intended lesson from the teacher. Read less? Don't try to cheat the system. Follow the spirit of rules obediently instead of attempting to use the wording of the rules to your advantage.
      - bruce511 2y ago
        I guess the lesson is "don't over deliver" :) In high school we had to make a list of 12 books we read in the year. I was reading a few a week. My list contained 12 books. (Side note, we lived some distance from the library in elementary school, but we got through the books -fast- so the librarians gave us extra library cards to reduce visits to like once a week. I also got adult-cards pretty young (like 10) because I'd read all the kids books and was already reading older fare. This was in the days before YA was a genre :) Of course you had a poor teacher because they obviously desired to teach you something, but forgot to tell you what the lesson was. Other than they were a bad teacher, but i guess you may already have known that.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    was there any benefit to reading more than 3 books in a given time period? if not i would have only reported 3 books. it's none of their business what i do beyond that. the lesson is that overachievers are often not welcome.
- coffeebeqn 2y ago
  Same - except many of my friends were reading for fun. Oh this has a skeleton on the cover? Guess I’ll read everything this guy/gal ever wrote. All the libraries I’ve been to recently are very well set up for discoverability. Especially the kids section. There are hundreds of books on display with some indication of what it’s like and themed sections and all kinds of stuff
  - goblin89 2y ago
    Everyone seems to say children should go to libraries more. At 9, I didn’t need to go to a library—we just had bunch of books at home. Books are cheap, especially second hand. Some of our books were in fact from a library (my mom went, but I never did), so those would rotate. I suppose the fact that books were physical and I did not have something like TikTok on my phone when I was 9 helped me read whatever was lying around. As adult I used Kindle for a while but got back to sourcing physical books, even though I have no permanent place and books are difficult to travel with.
    - theshrike79 2y ago
      > At 9, I didn’t need to go to a library—we just had bunch of books at home. Books are cheap, especially second hand. Some of our books were in fact from a library (my mom went, but I never did), so those would rotate. You know what isn't cheap in the 2020s? Space. My grandparents had a full-ass room just for books. I can't even fit my modest blu-ray collection in my apartment, they sit in storage along with my DVDs and physical books. I've got a Kindle and Calibre with hundreds of books and they don't take any space.
      - goblin89 2y ago
        Your grandparents’ house must be huge. We never had a room just for books, not me, not my parents, not their parents. A family of 4 in 2 bedrooms, one living room. Shelves are not expensive and you’d be surprised, they can fit quite a lot of books. Over time some books were lent or given to libraries, others added.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  About once a month my parents would take me to a book shop and I would (almost) invariably grab a new Star Wars Extended Universe novel
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  "[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book. > I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure. Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe.
  - ryanmcbride 2y ago
    I don't really think it's a gender thing, my friends who were boys and I talked about books pretty frequently. They were pretty much the same as videogames, comic books, movies and shows to us so we'd talk about them in the same way. I specifically remember that when the first Harry Potter (I was a child cut me some slack) came out I bounced off it because I didn't like it, and then one of my friends at school couldn't stop talking about it and got me interested enough to pick it back up. And don't even get me STARTED on the LotR books. Or Star Trek novelizations (which I still consider books).
  - triceratops 2y ago
    > Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe. If they did, they didn't tell me about it. That might tell you how much the other kids talked to me. Not much of a brag now is it? :-D However, I have good reason to believe it. I went to the public library every weekend when I was in elementary school. I never, ever ran into anyone from my class there in all those years. If the other kids in my class at age 9 read for pleasure, they weren't anywhere close to me in volume. It's not a brag, and not a real achievement. The tallest kid in a class at age 14 might only be of average height in a crowd 10 years later. This is the same thing.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      Many kids never visit the library except during school visits. They get books as gifts and read them at home.
  - teitoklien 2y ago
    > "[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book Crazy gender stereotype based on just anecdotes (nothing wrong with saying it tho, its always awesome to hear about different experiences) Most of the books that changed my life, got me into tech, programming, got me into business, entrepreneurship, hustle, etc. All the books, podcasts, etc were either shared directly to me by my male friends (im male too) who insisted i read those books for my betterment cuz those books were acc. to them : “Awesome” , or books that i discovered while exchange discussions about what books are we reading right now, exchanging reading lists, etc. There are tons of girls out there who hate reading books, (my mom included, she always has hated books, outside of school homework and exams), I do not like reading fiction books much, nor do my peers, we’ve exchanged book suggestions since childhood, now even more with more and more internet friends. Ive had great books on gardening, or agriculture, or history, etc recommended to me either inside books by authors, or by random telegram groups consisting mostly of nerd men. 99% of the books recommended to me were by men, and im a man. So i dont think its a girl only thing, plenty of people exchanging book, just go to any major reddit forum on reading and booksuggestions (like r/suggestmeabook) and you’ll find tons of men who are more than happy to give you suggestions, if you cannot find classmates or neighbours to share with
smileysteve 2y ago
At 9 (and before) i had bookit; where if you chose one of many of the sponsored books at the school (or public) library you got a personal pan pizza coupon. An interpretation is book cos have cut physical benefit advertising for cents on the dollar internet advertisements.
janalsncm 2y ago
That’s ok, part of the joy of going to a library is finding out about new things you’ve never even heard of. And we also already have human recommendation systems, they’re called librarians!
- akira2501 2y ago
  I ended up in the government section. Reading reports about arms and equipment transfers from the US Government to the Middle East made in the 1980s. It was definitely fascinating, especially because the Middle East was in the news at that time, but I really was only there because I had _no idea_ what to actually do. I'm not saying the library doesn't have exceptional value, or that 9 year olds shouldn't be in it, but maybe for younger patrons a "concierge" type service or "first timer group experience" being available would help a lot.
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    Typically that concierge service would be the conversation you have with the librarian as you sign up for a library card. What kind of books do you like, are you interested in Middle East arms transfers, oh have you heard of this one, etc. If you’re 9 years old perhaps that would also involve guiding you to the children’s section, although it seems you’ve turned out alright regardless.
- bshacklett 2y ago
  When I was 9, the librarian was the scary lady in the corner that yelled at me if I so much as coughed.
tylersmith 2y ago
There will always be people unable to figure out basic skills but that's not a reason to handicap the entire system.
kulahan 2y ago
I still don’t, honestly. I’ve never gone to the library when I wasn’t going to get some specific title. I Google stuff first.
karaterobot 2y ago
I assume they were talking about the school library, rather than a big library downtown somewhere. Certainly that is where I first fell in love with books. Sometimes all it takes to make someone a lifelong reader is a good librarian with a shelf full of curated picks, eye-catching covers facing out. As the article notes, school libraries are getting defunded and politicized, which is extremely sad to me, and disproportionately worrying for the future.
codemusings 2y ago
Well my school did trips to the local library so that everyone could acquire their paper card for borrowing books. The process of borrowing and the different sections in the library were explained by the librarian and at least in my mind that helped a great deal to seek out books on my own.

MisterTea 2y ago

In the NYC public libraries there are kids sections where you just walk around and look at books. If something seems interesting then pick it up and read it. I preferred things with technical pictures so the kids section was quite boring.

triceratops 2y ago

Weird. At 9 I randomly picked whatever looked interesting. If I liked it, I proceeded to read every single other thing by that author. There was no "word of mouth" because I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure.

hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
When I was that age my teacher had a thing where reading something like 3 books got you out of a lot of homework and your parent had to sign a paper listing what you read and you turned it in. As a kid who already hated school, and used reading as an escape from a pretty shit childhood, I was clocking in 5 books a week. The teacher first accused my parents of lying that I read that many books, because it quickly got to double digits, but I was able to summarize all of them off the top of my head, so instead I was just forbidden from doing it altogether. Not sure what the lesson is there, lol.
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago
  > The teacher first accused my parents of lying that I read that many books, because it quickly got to double digits, but I was able to summarize all of them off the top of my head, so instead I was just forbidden from doing it altogether. > Not sure what the lesson is there, lol. Lessons learned: a) Incentives matter (economy 101) b) If a market offers possibilities for arbitrage, market participants will attempt to make use of them. c) By market laws, arbitrage opportunities will close very fast, so in the long term, markets can be assumed to be arbitrage-free. d) Goodhart's law: When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure. e) Authorities (or those in power) will attempt to cheat you. Don't trust them.
  - hehdhdjehehegwv 2y ago
    Oh I mean what was the intended lesson from the teacher. Read less?
    - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
      > Oh I mean what was the intended lesson from the teacher. Read less? Don't try to cheat the system. Follow the spirit of rules obediently instead of attempting to use the wording of the rules to your advantage.
    - bruce511 2y ago
      I guess the lesson is "don't over deliver" :) In high school we had to make a list of 12 books we read in the year. I was reading a few a week. My list contained 12 books. (Side note, we lived some distance from the library in elementary school, but we got through the books -fast- so the librarians gave us extra library cards to reduce visits to like once a week. I also got adult-cards pretty young (like 10) because I'd read all the kids books and was already reading older fare. This was in the days before YA was a genre :) Of course you had a poor teacher because they obviously desired to teach you something, but forgot to tell you what the lesson was. Other than they were a bad teacher, but i guess you may already have known that.
- em-bee 2y ago
  was there any benefit to reading more than 3 books in a given time period? if not i would have only reported 3 books. it's none of their business what i do beyond that. the lesson is that overachievers are often not welcome.
coffeebeqn 2y ago
Same - except many of my friends were reading for fun. Oh this has a skeleton on the cover? Guess I’ll read everything this guy/gal ever wrote. All the libraries I’ve been to recently are very well set up for discoverability. Especially the kids section. There are hundreds of books on display with some indication of what it’s like and themed sections and all kinds of stuff
- goblin89 2y ago
  Everyone seems to say children should go to libraries more. At 9, I didn’t need to go to a library—we just had bunch of books at home. Books are cheap, especially second hand. Some of our books were in fact from a library (my mom went, but I never did), so those would rotate. I suppose the fact that books were physical and I did not have something like TikTok on my phone when I was 9 helped me read whatever was lying around. As adult I used Kindle for a while but got back to sourcing physical books, even though I have no permanent place and books are difficult to travel with.
  - theshrike79 2y ago
    > At 9, I didn’t need to go to a library—we just had bunch of books at home. Books are cheap, especially second hand. Some of our books were in fact from a library (my mom went, but I never did), so those would rotate. You know what isn't cheap in the 2020s? Space. My grandparents had a full-ass room just for books. I can't even fit my modest blu-ray collection in my apartment, they sit in storage along with my DVDs and physical books. I've got a Kindle and Calibre with hundreds of books and they don't take any space.
    - goblin89 2y ago
      Your grandparents’ house must be huge. We never had a room just for books, not me, not my parents, not their parents. A family of 4 in 2 bedrooms, one living room. Shelves are not expensive and you’d be surprised, they can fit quite a lot of books. Over time some books were lent or given to libraries, others added.
HideousKojima 2y ago
About once a month my parents would take me to a book shop and I would (almost) invariably grab a new Star Wars Extended Universe novel
throwaway2037 2y ago
"[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book. > I was the only kid in my class who read for pleasure. Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe.
- ryanmcbride 2y ago
  I don't really think it's a gender thing, my friends who were boys and I talked about books pretty frequently. They were pretty much the same as videogames, comic books, movies and shows to us so we'd talk about them in the same way. I specifically remember that when the first Harry Potter (I was a child cut me some slack) came out I bounced off it because I didn't like it, and then one of my friends at school couldn't stop talking about it and got me interested enough to pick it back up. And don't even get me STARTED on the LotR books. Or Star Trek novelizations (which I still consider books).
- triceratops 2y ago
  > Nice humblebrag. Also, I find this hard to believe. If they did, they didn't tell me about it. That might tell you how much the other kids talked to me. Not much of a brag now is it? :-D However, I have good reason to believe it. I went to the public library every weekend when I was in elementary school. I never, ever ran into anyone from my class there in all those years. If the other kids in my class at age 9 read for pleasure, they weren't anywhere close to me in volume. It's not a brag, and not a real achievement. The tallest kid in a class at age 14 might only be of average height in a crowd 10 years later. This is the same thing.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Many kids never visit the library except during school visits. They get books as gifts and read them at home.
- teitoklien 2y ago
  > "[W]ord of mouth" is probably mostly for girls. I never once had a boy tell me growing up that I needed to read a particular book Crazy gender stereotype based on just anecdotes (nothing wrong with saying it tho, its always awesome to hear about different experiences) Most of the books that changed my life, got me into tech, programming, got me into business, entrepreneurship, hustle, etc. All the books, podcasts, etc were either shared directly to me by my male friends (im male too) who insisted i read those books for my betterment cuz those books were acc. to them : “Awesome” , or books that i discovered while exchange discussions about what books are we reading right now, exchanging reading lists, etc. There are tons of girls out there who hate reading books, (my mom included, she always has hated books, outside of school homework and exams), I do not like reading fiction books much, nor do my peers, we’ve exchanged book suggestions since childhood, now even more with more and more internet friends. Ive had great books on gardening, or agriculture, or history, etc recommended to me either inside books by authors, or by random telegram groups consisting mostly of nerd men. 99% of the books recommended to me were by men, and im a man. So i dont think its a girl only thing, plenty of people exchanging book, just go to any major reddit forum on reading and booksuggestions (like r/suggestmeabook) and you’ll find tons of men who are more than happy to give you suggestions, if you cannot find classmates or neighbours to share with

smileysteve 2y ago

At 9 (and before) i had bookit; where if you chose one of many of the sponsored books at the school (or public) library you got a personal pan pizza coupon. An interpretation is book cos have cut physical benefit advertising for cents on the dollar internet advertisements.

janalsncm 2y ago

That’s ok, part of the joy of going to a library is finding out about new things you’ve never even heard of. And we also already have human recommendation systems, they’re called librarians!

akira2501 2y ago
I ended up in the government section. Reading reports about arms and equipment transfers from the US Government to the Middle East made in the 1980s. It was definitely fascinating, especially because the Middle East was in the news at that time, but I really was only there because I had _no idea_ what to actually do. I'm not saying the library doesn't have exceptional value, or that 9 year olds shouldn't be in it, but maybe for younger patrons a "concierge" type service or "first timer group experience" being available would help a lot.
- janalsncm 2y ago
  Typically that concierge service would be the conversation you have with the librarian as you sign up for a library card. What kind of books do you like, are you interested in Middle East arms transfers, oh have you heard of this one, etc. If you’re 9 years old perhaps that would also involve guiding you to the children’s section, although it seems you’ve turned out alright regardless.
bshacklett 2y ago
When I was 9, the librarian was the scary lady in the corner that yelled at me if I so much as coughed.

tylersmith 2y ago

There will always be people unable to figure out basic skills but that's not a reason to handicap the entire system.

kulahan 2y ago

I still don’t, honestly. I’ve never gone to the library when I wasn’t going to get some specific title. I Google stuff first.

karaterobot 2y ago

I assume they were talking about the school library, rather than a big library downtown somewhere. Certainly that is where I first fell in love with books. Sometimes all it takes to make someone a lifelong reader is a good librarian with a shelf full of curated picks, eye-catching covers facing out. As the article notes, school libraries are getting defunded and politicized, which is extremely sad to me, and disproportionately worrying for the future.

codemusings 2y ago

Well my school did trips to the local library so that everyone could acquire their paper card for borrowing books. The process of borrowing and the different sections in the library were explained by the librarian and at least in my mind that helped a great deal to seek out books on my own.