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Private home and business solar is big business in South Africa these days. As unreliable as solar is, its more predictable than our national grid, and increasi

Private home and business solar is big business in South Africa these days. As unreliable as solar is, its more predictable than our national grid, and increasingly cheap. There are also a few options to roll a house solar conversion into your mortgage, which makes it a lot more feasible for middle class people and up. I'm considering adding solar to my existing inverter/battery setup.

freedomben 2y ago
What impact is this having on the lower class? Is grid power getting cheaper or more plentiful because of this? Or is it getting more expensive for them due to economies of scale? I'm by no means implying that you're do anything wrong btw, I'm genuinely curious how this is affecting things. In the US I've wondered what the impact would be but it's too early to tell.
- Carlseymanh 2y ago
  I only heard this from a south African, so consider this hearsay, but prices of energy from private providers is not only cheaper, but the energy is actually available and not subjected to constant blackouts. Problem is, the governments since Mandela have used the state energy provider as a cash cow and are actively hampering any kind of modernization and/or private alternatives. Case in point: https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/01/11/eskom-poisoning-raises-fears-for-south-africas-energy-transition/ https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/01/11/eskom-poisoning...
  - liampulles 2y ago
    Absolutely, the government has been pushed for a few years now to allow for public enterprise to contribute to the grid. Our president recently announced that they are going to go ahead with this. I hope this is true.
- liampulles 2y ago
  No it is a good question. Does private solar aid the lower class? Well "lower class" in South Africa means real poverty. So they certainly can't get solar themselves. As to whether higher income households going off-grid helps - its tricky I think. On the one hand, private solar does lessen the burden on the grid. We currently have had a good few weeks without load shedding, one major contributing factor of which (acknowledged by Eskom themselves) has been a combination of good weather and off-grid solar households. But on the other hand, Eskom is increasingly deprived of the rates to pay for the large capital investments needed to upgrade the grid. Eskom has continually hiked those rates (which means more people are incentivized to go solar - it is a vicious cycle perhaps). Our government is finally moving forward with a policy of allowing private enterprise to contribute to the grid. I think this will definitely help. But realistically, I think South Africa will have to deal with load shedding for a good few years.
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    > So they certainly can't get solar themselves. I'm of two minds about this: OT1H, I participate in Kiva and would for sure accept a microloan for any solar, but OTOH it may be that folks who use Kiva (both the supply and demand sides) may think of it as just business or farming loans, and thus may not be on-board with infrastructure upgrades. So a hypothetical infra.kiva.com that targets any kind of infrastructure management goals (solar, batteries, sand batteries, water purification, ...) could draw the two interested parties together All of this is, of course, setting aside the colossal failure of the local government or markets to provide such things, but if I hold my breath on that to be fixed, I'll pass out
- yencabulator 2y ago
  One aspect to consider is that poor people might consume little enough that they're actually less dependent on the grid than large McMansions with lots of appliances. I lived for 3 years with 1040 watts of solar, traveling around the US in a motorhome. I really did not even feel like I was compromising on anything to save power, I had a tower PC, I watched movies with television + stereo system, etc. 1 kW of solar is tiny by residential solar standards. It's not hard to go solarpunk and live off of just solar, once you let go of large homes.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    The poor are also likely to be less dismissive of power that has intermittency issues. This is especially the case if the grid itself has reliability problems.
- itishappy 2y ago
  > What impact is this having on the lower class? Anecdote (but interesting): Channel 5's recent coverage of homeless populations living in the Las Vegas tunnels highlighted that they have electricity in there! A single cracked panel (salved from the trash!) provides more than enough juice to charge phones and even power TVs.
nuancebydefault 2y ago
> I'm considering adding solar to my existing inverter/battery setup. I had to read this several times before I understood... The grid is so unstable that batteries were installed even before any PV panels. We western people have the luxury of reasoning the other way around.

freedomben 2y ago

What impact is this having on the lower class? Is grid power getting cheaper or more plentiful because of this? Or is it getting more expensive for them due to economies of scale? I'm by no means implying that you're do anything wrong btw, I'm genuinely curious how this is affecting things. In the US I've wondered what the impact would be but it's too early to tell.

Carlseymanh 2y ago
I only heard this from a south African, so consider this hearsay, but prices of energy from private providers is not only cheaper, but the energy is actually available and not subjected to constant blackouts. Problem is, the governments since Mandela have used the state energy provider as a cash cow and are actively hampering any kind of modernization and/or private alternatives. Case in point: https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/01/11/eskom-poisoning-raises-fears-for-south-africas-energy-transition/ https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/01/11/eskom-poisoning...
- liampulles 2y ago
  Absolutely, the government has been pushed for a few years now to allow for public enterprise to contribute to the grid. Our president recently announced that they are going to go ahead with this. I hope this is true.
liampulles 2y ago
No it is a good question. Does private solar aid the lower class? Well "lower class" in South Africa means real poverty. So they certainly can't get solar themselves. As to whether higher income households going off-grid helps - its tricky I think. On the one hand, private solar does lessen the burden on the grid. We currently have had a good few weeks without load shedding, one major contributing factor of which (acknowledged by Eskom themselves) has been a combination of good weather and off-grid solar households. But on the other hand, Eskom is increasingly deprived of the rates to pay for the large capital investments needed to upgrade the grid. Eskom has continually hiked those rates (which means more people are incentivized to go solar - it is a vicious cycle perhaps). Our government is finally moving forward with a policy of allowing private enterprise to contribute to the grid. I think this will definitely help. But realistically, I think South Africa will have to deal with load shedding for a good few years.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  > So they certainly can't get solar themselves. I'm of two minds about this: OT1H, I participate in Kiva and would for sure accept a microloan for any solar, but OTOH it may be that folks who use Kiva (both the supply and demand sides) may think of it as just business or farming loans, and thus may not be on-board with infrastructure upgrades. So a hypothetical infra.kiva.com that targets any kind of infrastructure management goals (solar, batteries, sand batteries, water purification, ...) could draw the two interested parties together All of this is, of course, setting aside the colossal failure of the local government or markets to provide such things, but if I hold my breath on that to be fixed, I'll pass out
yencabulator 2y ago
One aspect to consider is that poor people might consume little enough that they're actually less dependent on the grid than large McMansions with lots of appliances. I lived for 3 years with 1040 watts of solar, traveling around the US in a motorhome. I really did not even feel like I was compromising on anything to save power, I had a tower PC, I watched movies with television + stereo system, etc. 1 kW of solar is tiny by residential solar standards. It's not hard to go solarpunk and live off of just solar, once you let go of large homes.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  The poor are also likely to be less dismissive of power that has intermittency issues. This is especially the case if the grid itself has reliability problems.
itishappy 2y ago
> What impact is this having on the lower class? Anecdote (but interesting): Channel 5's recent coverage of homeless populations living in the Las Vegas tunnels highlighted that they have electricity in there! A single cracked panel (salved from the trash!) provides more than enough juice to charge phones and even power TVs.

nuancebydefault 2y ago

> I'm considering adding solar to my existing inverter/battery setup. I had to read this several times before I understood... The grid is so unstable that batteries were installed even before any PV panels. We western people have the luxury of reasoning the other way around.