4 ms·

You’re calling $3,600 worth of GPUs “quite common for hobbyist use” and then comparing an iPad to a $40,000 AI-centric GPU.

sudosysgen 2y ago
It's almost 70x more powerful. A 4 year old 3070 laptop was cheaper when it came out and has about 200 TOPS, 7 times as much. It's just factually incorrect to call it "faster than any AI PC", it's far slower than a cheaper laptop from 4 years ago.
- astrange 2y ago
  "Powerful" isn't the thing that matters for a battery-powered device. Power/perf is.
  - sudosysgen 2y ago
    If they thought that peak performance didn't matter, they wouldn't quote peak performance numbers in their comparison, and yet they did. Peak performance clearly matters, even in battery powered devices: many workloads are bursty and latency matters then, and there are workloads where you can be expected to be plugged in. In fact, one such workload is generative AI which is often characterized by burst usage where latency matters a lot, which is exactly what these NPUs are marketed towards.
- acdha 2y ago
  AI PC is a specific marketing term which Intel is using for their NPU-equipped products where they’re emphasizing low-power AI: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/what-is-an-ai-pc.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/what-i... In that context it seems fair to make the comparison between a MacBook and the PC version which is closest on perf/watt rather than absolute performance on a space heater.
  - sudosysgen 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - nomel 2y ago
      > Then make a comparison on perf/watt. You need to understand that the presentation, and product, wasn't made for the perf/watt crowd. That’s also why they’re so successful with consumer electronics: 9X% of the population is not part of the perf/watt crowd.
      - sudosysgen 2y ago
        I understand the product and the use cases. 90+% of people don't care about perf/watt, because it's an irrelevant implementation detail. People care about speed and autonomy. The average user who is comparing this against a PC for AI stuff would prefer a faster PC with a (much!) larger battery and the same autonomy at the end of day in that task but that's much faster every time. If I need to do intensive enough on-device AI workloads for efficiency to matter and on battery, why would I take an iPad with a 30Wh battery, 2x perf/watt, and 1x speed over a laptop with a 65Wh battery, 1x perf/watt, and 10x speed? The latter will give me a better experience, it will be more responsive and last longer. So at the end of the day, Apple's comparison is extremely misleading at best, and a straightforward lie at worst.
        nomel 2y ago
        > the average user who is comparing this against a PC for AI stuff If your primary use case is local AI on battery, you're probably into some small hundredths of a percent of the population here, who would be better served on some budget cloud compute (self deployed even) rather than heating up your lap. > why would I take an iPad with a 30Wh battery... Because it fits between the pages of the book in your backpack, has a nice pencil, and can *also* do ok with local AI.
        sudosysgen 2y ago

sudosysgen 2y ago

It's almost 70x more powerful. A 4 year old 3070 laptop was cheaper when it came out and has about 200 TOPS, 7 times as much. It's just factually incorrect to call it "faster than any AI PC", it's far slower than a cheaper laptop from 4 years ago.

astrange 2y ago
"Powerful" isn't the thing that matters for a battery-powered device. Power/perf is.
- sudosysgen 2y ago
  If they thought that peak performance didn't matter, they wouldn't quote peak performance numbers in their comparison, and yet they did. Peak performance clearly matters, even in battery powered devices: many workloads are bursty and latency matters then, and there are workloads where you can be expected to be plugged in. In fact, one such workload is generative AI which is often characterized by burst usage where latency matters a lot, which is exactly what these NPUs are marketed towards.
acdha 2y ago
AI PC is a specific marketing term which Intel is using for their NPU-equipped products where they’re emphasizing low-power AI: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/what-is-an-ai-pc.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/what-i... In that context it seems fair to make the comparison between a MacBook and the PC version which is closest on perf/watt rather than absolute performance on a space heater.
- sudosysgen 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nomel 2y ago
    > Then make a comparison on perf/watt. You need to understand that the presentation, and product, wasn't made for the perf/watt crowd. That’s also why they’re so successful with consumer electronics: 9X% of the population is not part of the perf/watt crowd.
    - sudosysgen 2y ago
      I understand the product and the use cases. 90+% of people don't care about perf/watt, because it's an irrelevant implementation detail. People care about speed and autonomy. The average user who is comparing this against a PC for AI stuff would prefer a faster PC with a (much!) larger battery and the same autonomy at the end of day in that task but that's much faster every time. If I need to do intensive enough on-device AI workloads for efficiency to matter and on battery, why would I take an iPad with a 30Wh battery, 2x perf/watt, and 1x speed over a laptop with a 65Wh battery, 1x perf/watt, and 10x speed? The latter will give me a better experience, it will be more responsive and last longer. So at the end of the day, Apple's comparison is extremely misleading at best, and a straightforward lie at worst.
      - nomel 2y ago
        > the average user who is comparing this against a PC for AI stuff If your primary use case is local AI on battery, you're probably into some small hundredths of a percent of the population here, who would be better served on some budget cloud compute (self deployed even) rather than heating up your lap. > why would I take an iPad with a 30Wh battery... Because it fits between the pages of the book in your backpack, has a nice pencil, and can *also* do ok with local AI.
        sudosysgen 2y ago