4 ms·

What, exactly, was the substance of their complaint(s), if any? Was it just that you made them do their job in a way different from how they are used to?

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
The "point" of the whiteboard interview is to see how you think and converse and interact around your coding process, not (necessarily) how accurate/good you are at writing the code. You could write pseudocode that can't compile, and as long as you can explain the algorithm and talk about its complexity you could "pass" (in theory) Screening interviews do take place in a shared doc or other editor, I believe.
- Paul-Craft 2y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to what I was asking. To be clear, I agree, I just don't understand why you chose to write this in reply to what I wrote.
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    The complaint of the interviewers would (likely) be that they want to see the candidate go through the whiteboard process, because of the reasons I gave. It's just part of the process. Writing in an editor takes away their ability to probe that process. Don't get me wrong I think it's silly, but
    - Paul-Craft 2y ago
      Oh, I see. There's no literal reason why that discussion can't take place over a laptop screen, either. So, I suppose it more or less does boil down to "you are making us do our job differently from how we are used to, and we don't like it." That is supremely silly.
- OnionBlender 2y ago
  I've never had any company let me write pseudocode. I once tried to write "vec" instead of "std::vector" and the interview told me to write valid code on the whiteboard. (And I did explain that I was to avoid writing "std::vector" repeatedly).
  - mrcode007 2y ago
    template<typename T> using vec = std::vector<T>; Or even using V = std::vector<T>; for a concrete type T Solves the problem. If someone denies you this, you don’t want to work there :)
  - vundercind 2y ago
    I’ve managed to mostly avoid these kinds of interviews—is this for real? Is this what lots of the folks mean when they claim tons of candidates “can’t even code?” Syntax or some names aren’t right for some particular language? Shit, I forget the syntax for “for” loops or what the right way to get an array’s length is or what this language’s way of declaring a constructor looks like in languages I’ve written several hundred of lines of in the last few days, routinely, while under no real pressure at all. I crib off my own surrounding code for syntax hints constantly. I’ve been doing this north of 20 years, and tend to end up as the guy to go to for tricky problems wherever I work, but I would fail 100% of whiteboard code-writing tests that gave any fucks about it being remotely correct in any particular language. I think the last time I could maybe have done it was when I knew only one language, and it was Perl, and I mostly wrote it in notepad—so, like, the first year or so after started writing code.
OnionBlender 2y ago
This was years ago (pre-covid) but what I remember was a mix of: - "Oh, you're using a laptop" - "Do you really need to use that?" - "Just write it on the whiteboard" - "It would be easier to see on the whiteboard" They also didn't give me a mouse, so using the trackpad was slow. What I hate most about whiteboards is how you can't easily insert lines so you have to leave lots of space. I tend to write code like an onion rather than top down.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  Here's my take on it: the interview is testing your ability to "show" that you absorbed the content and process of your 4th year data-structures and algorithms classes. The whiteboard process is all about showing them that you can regurgitate what those courses taught you, likely in the manner that the prof taught you. You're essentially playing "professor" for them in front of a "class", for a short period of time. Not showing them that you can write code. The code you write on the whiteboard will look nothing like anything you'll ever write at Google. I think one way to do well in that interview, is to pretend you're the professor and they're a student, and you're working through course material. In the end, it's just showing them that you passed the socio-cultural hurdles they think are necessary, even if they no longer explicitly check GPAs and which school you came from at interview time. Why? Google is more often than not the first job these employees have after school, and many stay there almost forever after. A large percentage are masters or PhDs. Google is founded by two Stanford grads, both children of academics, who never worked in the industry outside of Google. Academia is hence the reference point against which Google measures things. Google is structured in many ways just like a university. Publish or perish (Design docs, PRDs). Thesis committees (perf "calibration" committee, interview committees, etc) and review (intense code review). Even down to the physical "campus" structure. On site cafeterias, even housing/dorms (GSuites, etc) It's something that was very foreign to me having worked in the industry for a decade before, without a degree.
  - Paul-Craft 2y ago
    > I think one way to do well in that interview, is to pretend you're the professor and they're a student, and you're working through course material. If that's what they want, they should give out the questions in advance, and have the candidate prepare a slide deck. No professor conducts class by having students show up and fire random questions at them all semester. More explicitly, if that's what they want, they should say that.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago

The "point" of the whiteboard interview is to see how you think and converse and interact around your coding process, not (necessarily) how accurate/good you are at writing the code. You could write pseudocode that can't compile, and as long as you can explain the algorithm and talk about its complexity you could "pass" (in theory) Screening interviews do take place in a shared doc or other editor, I believe.

Paul-Craft 2y ago
I'm sorry, I don't see how that relates to what I was asking. To be clear, I agree, I just don't understand why you chose to write this in reply to what I wrote.
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  The complaint of the interviewers would (likely) be that they want to see the candidate go through the whiteboard process, because of the reasons I gave. It's just part of the process. Writing in an editor takes away their ability to probe that process. Don't get me wrong I think it's silly, but
  - Paul-Craft 2y ago
    Oh, I see. There's no literal reason why that discussion can't take place over a laptop screen, either. So, I suppose it more or less does boil down to "you are making us do our job differently from how we are used to, and we don't like it." That is supremely silly.
OnionBlender 2y ago
I've never had any company let me write pseudocode. I once tried to write "vec" instead of "std::vector" and the interview told me to write valid code on the whiteboard. (And I did explain that I was to avoid writing "std::vector" repeatedly).
- mrcode007 2y ago
  template<typename T> using vec = std::vector<T>; Or even using V = std::vector<T>; for a concrete type T Solves the problem. If someone denies you this, you don’t want to work there :)
- vundercind 2y ago
  I’ve managed to mostly avoid these kinds of interviews—is this for real? Is this what lots of the folks mean when they claim tons of candidates “can’t even code?” Syntax or some names aren’t right for some particular language? Shit, I forget the syntax for “for” loops or what the right way to get an array’s length is or what this language’s way of declaring a constructor looks like in languages I’ve written several hundred of lines of in the last few days, routinely, while under no real pressure at all. I crib off my own surrounding code for syntax hints constantly. I’ve been doing this north of 20 years, and tend to end up as the guy to go to for tricky problems wherever I work, but I would fail 100% of whiteboard code-writing tests that gave any fucks about it being remotely correct in any particular language. I think the last time I could maybe have done it was when I knew only one language, and it was Perl, and I mostly wrote it in notepad—so, like, the first year or so after started writing code.

OnionBlender 2y ago

This was years ago (pre-covid) but what I remember was a mix of: - "Oh, you're using a laptop" - "Do you really need to use that?" - "Just write it on the whiteboard" - "It would be easier to see on the whiteboard" They also didn't give me a mouse, so using the trackpad was slow. What I hate most about whiteboards is how you can't easily insert lines so you have to leave lots of space. I tend to write code like an onion rather than top down.

cmrdporcupine 2y ago
Here's my take on it: the interview is testing your ability to "show" that you absorbed the content and process of your 4th year data-structures and algorithms classes. The whiteboard process is all about showing them that you can regurgitate what those courses taught you, likely in the manner that the prof taught you. You're essentially playing "professor" for them in front of a "class", for a short period of time. Not showing them that you can write code. The code you write on the whiteboard will look nothing like anything you'll ever write at Google. I think one way to do well in that interview, is to pretend you're the professor and they're a student, and you're working through course material. In the end, it's just showing them that you passed the socio-cultural hurdles they think are necessary, even if they no longer explicitly check GPAs and which school you came from at interview time. Why? Google is more often than not the first job these employees have after school, and many stay there almost forever after. A large percentage are masters or PhDs. Google is founded by two Stanford grads, both children of academics, who never worked in the industry outside of Google. Academia is hence the reference point against which Google measures things. Google is structured in many ways just like a university. Publish or perish (Design docs, PRDs). Thesis committees (perf "calibration" committee, interview committees, etc) and review (intense code review). Even down to the physical "campus" structure. On site cafeterias, even housing/dorms (GSuites, etc) It's something that was very foreign to me having worked in the industry for a decade before, without a degree.
- Paul-Craft 2y ago
  > I think one way to do well in that interview, is to pretend you're the professor and they're a student, and you're working through course material. If that's what they want, they should give out the questions in advance, and have the candidate prepare a slide deck. No professor conducts class by having students show up and fire random questions at them all semester. More explicitly, if that's what they want, they should say that.