3 ms·

I think you are thinking of "Locke" and "Demosthenes" in Ender’s Game.

by mcculley 2y ago

notahacker 2y ago
The reality of which was best summarised by https://xkcd.com/635/ https://xkcd.com/635/
- seryoiupfurds 2y ago
  It's ironic how that comic aged far more poorly than the original premise it made fun of. By 2016, anonymous online political commentary was directly influencing major world events.
  - julianeon 2y ago
    I mean only in the aggregate, only if you got a big community to do it or got picked up and amplified by a political leader. I can't think of any anonymous blog posts which changed the world. Movements like Anonymous have had an impact, but there's a more to that than online screeds. The closest analog might be Q, aka an anon like Ron Watkins, but that itself was swept up in a larger movement that pushed and pulled in all sorts of different directions. To me the idea of kids posting on Internet forums and becoming major political leaders through their pseudonyms, through logical language like a modern-day version of the Federalist Papers, does seem pretty silly in 2024.
    - vitalurk 2y ago
      You should check out the Bitcoin whitepaper.
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      Heck, book-length political treatises by anonymous insiders barely got any traction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Hubris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Hubris
    - fitsumbelay 2y ago
      Fair point about it being in aggregate would what an aggregation it was back in 2014, 2015 and 2016. And it was a mix of groups and goals -- some were partisans who intentionally disinformed while others were apolitical and driven by opportunism and greed. maybe there was some overlap, maybe some codependence. But they certainly changed the world imho by preventing what would've been a more responsible Clinton Administration from managing the pandemic in the US for example.
  - notahacker 2y ago
    By 2016, we'd realised that the way to influence people with anonymous political commentary was to do the exact opposite of producing detailed, well-reasoned arguments...
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      Were there "detailed, well-reasoned arguments" before? Just looking at political commentary from the 80s and 90s, it's mostly nonsense.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    I'm a huge xkcd hater, but I would give that strip credit for unintentionally capturing a snapshot of the internet. Most anonymous WordPress blogs languished in obscurity, truly people's live journals that no one cared to comment on, let alone add you to their blogroll. That era of discourse has been superseded by far louder (and dumb and obnoxious) Mediums.
fitsumbelay 2y ago
true

I think you are thinking of "Locke" and "Demosthenes" in Ender’s Game.

notahacker 2y ago

The reality of which was best summarised by https://xkcd.com/635/ https://xkcd.com/635/

seryoiupfurds 2y ago
It's ironic how that comic aged far more poorly than the original premise it made fun of. By 2016, anonymous online political commentary was directly influencing major world events.
- julianeon 2y ago
  I mean only in the aggregate, only if you got a big community to do it or got picked up and amplified by a political leader. I can't think of any anonymous blog posts which changed the world. Movements like Anonymous have had an impact, but there's a more to that than online screeds. The closest analog might be Q, aka an anon like Ron Watkins, but that itself was swept up in a larger movement that pushed and pulled in all sorts of different directions. To me the idea of kids posting on Internet forums and becoming major political leaders through their pseudonyms, through logical language like a modern-day version of the Federalist Papers, does seem pretty silly in 2024.
  - vitalurk 2y ago
    You should check out the Bitcoin whitepaper.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Heck, book-length political treatises by anonymous insiders barely got any traction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Hubris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Hubris
  - fitsumbelay 2y ago
    Fair point about it being in aggregate would what an aggregation it was back in 2014, 2015 and 2016. And it was a mix of groups and goals -- some were partisans who intentionally disinformed while others were apolitical and driven by opportunism and greed. maybe there was some overlap, maybe some codependence. But they certainly changed the world imho by preventing what would've been a more responsible Clinton Administration from managing the pandemic in the US for example.
- notahacker 2y ago
  By 2016, we'd realised that the way to influence people with anonymous political commentary was to do the exact opposite of producing detailed, well-reasoned arguments...
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Were there "detailed, well-reasoned arguments" before? Just looking at political commentary from the 80s and 90s, it's mostly nonsense.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  I'm a huge xkcd hater, but I would give that strip credit for unintentionally capturing a snapshot of the internet. Most anonymous WordPress blogs languished in obscurity, truly people's live journals that no one cared to comment on, let alone add you to their blogroll. That era of discourse has been superseded by far louder (and dumb and obnoxious) Mediums.

fitsumbelay 2y ago

true