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Texas could be a good example that is ramping up more battery usage without having massive energy prices. Granted the energy system in Texas needs other changes

Texas could be a good example that is ramping up more battery usage without having massive energy prices. Granted the energy system in Texas needs other changes (feb 2021 winter storm for instance!) but it could end up being a good template in the long run.

crackercrews 2y ago
They use natural gas to charge up their batteries. [1] This is a different use case than California. 1: https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/texas-will-add-more-grid-batteries-than-any-other-state-in-2024 https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/texas-wi...
- itishappy 2y ago
  The article mentions this: > In Texas, many batteries today are actually increasing carbon-dioxide emissions, according to one analysis. That’s because operators focus on maximizing revenue and sometimes charge with coal or gas power. Sounds like they're still using using environmental externalities to subsidize their costs. Regardless, the results are the same. Batteries are the future.
  - crackercrews 2y ago
    People are leaving California because it's too expensive. It's nice to internalize externalities. But if the result is that people leave then it's not really solving the problem. You've just shifted the emissions to Texas. Same for manufacturing that goes to China.
    - itishappy 2y ago
      This assumes the losses to emigration are higher than the efficiency improvements. I suspect that's not how it works out in practice, but I don't have the data to support this. It's also reasonable to assume internalizing externalities can drive efficiency improvements everywhere. Would batteries by as efficient and available for installation in TX if CA hadn't subsidized them for a decade prior?
      - crackercrews 2y ago
        Other states can free-ride off of some of these innovations. But we also have to put up with the ways in which California regulations regarding fuel efficiency or whatever else hurt our markets. It's not clear that California's subsidies outweigh these effects.
        itishappy 2y ago
        Without data, we're firmly restricted to the realm of hypotheticals, but even there I'm struggling to comprehend how this would work. Can you provide an example of such an effect?
        crackercrews 2y ago
        California said they want no ICE vehicle sales by 2035 or something. They're also restricting ICE 18 wheelers. This has a huge impact on the viability of manufacturing these products for nationwide purchase. My guess is the goals will not be met. California may even have a backlash. But in the meantime markets will have been collateral damage.
    - more_corn 2y ago
      People leaving California is a good thing both for California and the places they go. There’s a massive housing crisis in CA. Getting people out of it reduces demand which is the only solution if you persistently cannot or will not solve supply. The Texas energy grid is actually greening rapidly. Although everyone deploying solar in Texas should also deploy a local battery. If you don’t you can’t run your solar when the grid is down.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

crackercrews 2y ago

They use natural gas to charge up their batteries. [1] This is a different use case than California. 1: https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/texas-will-add-more-grid-batteries-than-any-other-state-in-2024 https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/energy-storage/texas-wi...

itishappy 2y ago
The article mentions this: > In Texas, many batteries today are actually increasing carbon-dioxide emissions, according to one analysis. That’s because operators focus on maximizing revenue and sometimes charge with coal or gas power. Sounds like they're still using using environmental externalities to subsidize their costs. Regardless, the results are the same. Batteries are the future.
- crackercrews 2y ago
  People are leaving California because it's too expensive. It's nice to internalize externalities. But if the result is that people leave then it's not really solving the problem. You've just shifted the emissions to Texas. Same for manufacturing that goes to China.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    This assumes the losses to emigration are higher than the efficiency improvements. I suspect that's not how it works out in practice, but I don't have the data to support this. It's also reasonable to assume internalizing externalities can drive efficiency improvements everywhere. Would batteries by as efficient and available for installation in TX if CA hadn't subsidized them for a decade prior?
    - crackercrews 2y ago
      Other states can free-ride off of some of these innovations. But we also have to put up with the ways in which California regulations regarding fuel efficiency or whatever else hurt our markets. It's not clear that California's subsidies outweigh these effects.
      - itishappy 2y ago
        Without data, we're firmly restricted to the realm of hypotheticals, but even there I'm struggling to comprehend how this would work. Can you provide an example of such an effect?
        crackercrews 2y ago
        California said they want no ICE vehicle sales by 2035 or something. They're also restricting ICE 18 wheelers. This has a huge impact on the viability of manufacturing these products for nationwide purchase. My guess is the goals will not be met. California may even have a backlash. But in the meantime markets will have been collateral damage.
  - more_corn 2y ago
    People leaving California is a good thing both for California and the places they go. There’s a massive housing crisis in CA. Getting people out of it reduces demand which is the only solution if you persistently cannot or will not solve supply. The Texas energy grid is actually greening rapidly. Although everyone deploying solar in Texas should also deploy a local battery. If you don’t you can’t run your solar when the grid is down.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]