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Unpopular opinion here but Apple’s approach to environmental stuff is more right than wrong. The biggest environmental impact of devices are in the manufacturin

Unpopular opinion here but Apple’s approach to environmental stuff is more right than wrong. The biggest environmental impact of devices are in the manufacturing and disposel of them. At Apple’s scale all of the things they do add up. Their use of recycled materials, elimination of certain more toxic materials, and even just making lighter products and packaging all help. At a minimum, those efforts are better than not having them and seem to be more than any other manufacturer is willing to do. Apple has set a goal to have a closed production loop, using only materials that they have recycled from older ones. That’s really ambitious and I doubt they’ll get there 100% but once again, what other company is even trying that? Usually the only thing people can point to for Apple not being as green as they’d like is the repairability of the products. I’m willing to bet that whatever additional waste that is created by that is more than offset by having devices that last longer. Devices that require fewer repairs and have good software support allows either you, or whoever gets your old devices, to keep using the same device for longer. Every device has a lifecycle, making it as long as possible is the best way to avoid environmental impacts.

goosedragons 2y ago
They're doing a horrible job. You're right that the biggest environmental impact is manufacturing and disposal. But keeping a device running longer is better than manufacturing a new one from recycled parts . The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Not to mention stuff like just being able to actually replace the keyboard in any reasonable fashion, etc. There's really very very little reason for all the Macs at least to not have M.2 slots besides letting Apple save pennies on SSD controller costs and convincing users to spring for overpriced upgrades. Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! The Surface Pros do!
- seryoiupfurds 2y ago
  If it takes 2% more materials to make the components upgradeable, but only 1% of users will do it over the device's lifetime, then that's a net loss for the environment. I don't like it either and I'm not sure I agree, but that's probably their logic.
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    I think their logic is it makes 2% more profit not to do it.
    - seryoiupfurds 2y ago
      Oh certainly, their two greatest motivations to build things that way are: 1. Make devices thinner and sleeker 2. Capture value from power users who would otherwise buy the base model and upgrade it themselves But that's probably how they justify it as not environmentally harmful.
    - nozzlegear 2y ago
      They need not be mutually exclusive conclusions.
- multimoon 2y ago
  Apples devices are in the field longer than most OEMs, especially mobile devices you realize? They don’t just trash it when you trade it, they resell as used.
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    And if you look at resellers on places like eBay they tend to sell upgraded models with increased amounts of storage and RAM if they can.
    - multimoon 2y ago
      What does that have to do with it? They’ll sell whatever stock they have - most people end up ordering upgraded models so the field split is skewed. You’re reaching acting like Apple is purposefully creating environmental damage when they do by far more than any other OEM on this planet to minimize their impact. They should be praised for doing anything at all in the face of no competition motivation, not judged for “you can do more!!! >:(“.
      - goosedragons 2y ago
        They absolutely haven't. It's laughable to suggest they've done the most when they've started trends like gluing down batteries, riveting keyboards, etc. Using slightly more recycled parts in the chassis and removing power adapters from the box does not make up for making devices less repairable.
  - lancesells 2y ago
    Apple is known to shred devices. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iph... https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-g... I agree their devices last "long" but if they were upgradable they would last much longer.
- _19qg 2y ago
  > The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. If someone needs more power/storage, then one usually passes them to the next person which might use it for many more years. My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. > Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! Most users don't need that. I'm using fixed storage in my Macs (and iPads) for years. I've attached additional storage to USB-C for many years without problems.
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    > Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. Which is why it's a shame they have poor repairability
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. That doesn't really make a case for the device's longevity :-)
    - lispm 2y ago
      True, the thing is from 2014.
      - mcphage 2y ago
        Ah, that sounds quite a bit better!
  - saurik 2y ago
    My original iPad Pro from 2015 is still used and is still perfect for not just everything I want to do with it but always has no issue with new stuff... except, Apple finally decided that it won't get OS upgrades, and so the few bits of software on it that I use are going to rot -- even the web browser these days doesn't work long as people no longer believe in progressive enhancement... the few-year old version of iOS on my iPhone would just render blank white pages for major websites, which is what finally forced me to upgrade: the device has devolved to not much more than a dumb phone -- and so this iPad, with its glorious large screen, will soon be trash. If I could install an alternative third-party web browser -- though it would have to be one by someone who also understood the importance of supporting the old OS -- or if I could pitch in and help maintain the operating system myself, even using binary patches if required (look into who I am if you laugh here, and then stop laughing: we can do quite a lot without source code) I would be able to keep using it, but only Apple can save it now, and they have absolutely zero in incentive to do so.
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prometheon1 2y ago
> seem to be more than any other manufacturer is willing to do I would agree if you change "any" to "most". Here are some examples of "any" manufacturers that are willing to do more: - For tablets and phones: https://www.shift.eco/en/impact/ https://www.shift.eco/en/impact/ - For laptops: https://frame.work/sustainability https://frame.work/sustainability - For phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/
lr1970 2y ago
Until Apple makes their devices with user replaceable batteries all their environmental efforts are falling short. Making consumable part -- a battery -- an integrated component that requires special tools and training to replace is environmental crime in name of planned obsolesce. Everything else Apple does are second-order effects.
deleted 2y ago
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goosedragons 2y ago

They're doing a horrible job. You're right that the biggest environmental impact is manufacturing and disposal. But keeping a device running longer is better than manufacturing a new one from recycled parts . The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Not to mention stuff like just being able to actually replace the keyboard in any reasonable fashion, etc. There's really very very little reason for all the Macs at least to not have M.2 slots besides letting Apple save pennies on SSD controller costs and convincing users to spring for overpriced upgrades. Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! The Surface Pros do!

seryoiupfurds 2y ago
If it takes 2% more materials to make the components upgradeable, but only 1% of users will do it over the device's lifetime, then that's a net loss for the environment. I don't like it either and I'm not sure I agree, but that's probably their logic.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  I think their logic is it makes 2% more profit not to do it.
  - seryoiupfurds 2y ago
    Oh certainly, their two greatest motivations to build things that way are: 1. Make devices thinner and sleeker 2. Capture value from power users who would otherwise buy the base model and upgrade it themselves But that's probably how they justify it as not environmentally harmful.
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    They need not be mutually exclusive conclusions.
multimoon 2y ago
Apples devices are in the field longer than most OEMs, especially mobile devices you realize? They don’t just trash it when you trade it, they resell as used.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  And if you look at resellers on places like eBay they tend to sell upgraded models with increased amounts of storage and RAM if they can.
  - multimoon 2y ago
    What does that have to do with it? They’ll sell whatever stock they have - most people end up ordering upgraded models so the field split is skewed. You’re reaching acting like Apple is purposefully creating environmental damage when they do by far more than any other OEM on this planet to minimize their impact. They should be praised for doing anything at all in the face of no competition motivation, not judged for “you can do more!!! >:(“.
    - goosedragons 2y ago
      They absolutely haven't. It's laughable to suggest they've done the most when they've started trends like gluing down batteries, riveting keyboards, etc. Using slightly more recycled parts in the chassis and removing power adapters from the box does not make up for making devices less repairable.
- lancesells 2y ago
  Apple is known to shred devices. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iph... https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-g... I agree their devices last "long" but if they were upgradable they would last much longer.
_19qg 2y ago
> The way Apple handles storage and memory means ENTIRE devices need to be replaced when a new larger SSD or a few more gigs of memory are all that's really needed to keep a device in service for a few years longer. Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. If someone needs more power/storage, then one usually passes them to the next person which might use it for many more years. My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. > Even the iPad could probably use an M.2 SSD! Most users don't need that. I'm using fixed storage in my Macs (and iPads) for years. I've attached additional storage to USB-C for many years without problems.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  > Most iPads are vastly overpowered and last for a long time. Which is why it's a shame they have poor repairability
- mcphage 2y ago
  > My old iPad Air 2 from 2024 is still used. That doesn't really make a case for the device's longevity :-)
  - lispm 2y ago
    True, the thing is from 2014.
    - mcphage 2y ago
      Ah, that sounds quite a bit better!
- saurik 2y ago
  My original iPad Pro from 2015 is still used and is still perfect for not just everything I want to do with it but always has no issue with new stuff... except, Apple finally decided that it won't get OS upgrades, and so the few bits of software on it that I use are going to rot -- even the web browser these days doesn't work long as people no longer believe in progressive enhancement... the few-year old version of iOS on my iPhone would just render blank white pages for major websites, which is what finally forced me to upgrade: the device has devolved to not much more than a dumb phone -- and so this iPad, with its glorious large screen, will soon be trash. If I could install an alternative third-party web browser -- though it would have to be one by someone who also understood the importance of supporting the old OS -- or if I could pitch in and help maintain the operating system myself, even using binary patches if required (look into who I am if you laugh here, and then stop laughing: we can do quite a lot without source code) I would be able to keep using it, but only Apple can save it now, and they have absolutely zero in incentive to do so.

deleted 2y ago

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prometheon1 2y ago

> seem to be more than any other manufacturer is willing to do I would agree if you change "any" to "most". Here are some examples of "any" manufacturers that are willing to do more: - For tablets and phones: https://www.shift.eco/en/impact/ https://www.shift.eco/en/impact/ - For laptops: https://frame.work/sustainability https://frame.work/sustainability - For phones: https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/story/

lr1970 2y ago

Until Apple makes their devices with user replaceable batteries all their environmental efforts are falling short. Making consumable part -- a battery -- an integrated component that requires special tools and training to replace is environmental crime in name of planned obsolesce. Everything else Apple does are second-order effects.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]