6 ms·

> brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal Yes!!! I’m biting my tongue a little on how infuriating the process has been to ask cafes for warmed cold brews, bu

by dahart 2y ago

> brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal Yes!!! I’m biting my tongue a little on how infuriating the process has been to ask cafes for warmed cold brews, but you’re spot on and exactly right. I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. (Or, in a few cases in my sampling I’m certain it was willful ignorance, laziness, because it takes a little more work and more space to cold brew.) I will say that one of my local cafes understood completely and they’re happy to make hot cold-brewed coffee, and made me feel welcome for asking for it. One or two others were very good about it, but hands down the majority of cafes were a bad experience when asking for a warmed cold brew. Good luck to them, they’ve lost my business.

kurthr 2y ago
It's funny cuz Charbux has no problem pouring hot espresso into cold ice milk with caramel and cream on top. I think it's pretty clearly just "baristas" justifying not changing their process, which is fine if a bit lazy and argumentative. Many coffee people are totally interested in finding new ways to do stuff, but they have to have the mental space to do it.
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
  Funny. Exactly that stuff is the only reason I've ever entered a Starbucks. Venti! But TBH one can do that with better coffee, caramel sirup, some crushed ice from the fridge, and even spray cream out of a can for much less money, just not 'on-demand' and anywhere/anytime. Also, too much (spray) cream and caramel in Venti amounts can't be that good for your body.
  - waldothedog 2y ago
    Why not trenta?
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      Burst prevention. edit: Also price, the last time I had that it was about 6EUR for Venti, while that even bigger thing would have been just slightly under 10EUR. Which I think of as insane, considering the not that special ingredients. That was years ago, long before COVID. Didn't go there afterwards, neither in .de, .eur, or the .us. Don't want to support that franchise chain mindfuckery.
- hinkley 2y ago
  Pouring hot coffee onto plastic…
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- look_lookatme 2y ago
  Starbucks cold brew is actually not bad as far as cold brews go. It’s definitely not iced coffee.
  - toast0 2y ago
    They do serve both, and they're different. Close enough for me, so I get the iced coffee cause it costs less and I respond to incentives.
NoGravitas 2y ago
> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Light roasts came (back?) into style among coffee snobs a few years ago because it highlights the difference between different sources/regions/whatever. Ever since then, the former best coffee shop in my town has been exclusively producing sour, vegetal, under-extracted brews. The justified reaction to Charbucks among coffee snobs has produced an objectively worse cup of coffee.
- panopticon 2y ago
  This is mainly what got me into roasting my own coffee. It was becoming a pain to find high quality dark roasts as all of the boutique roasters turned their efforts to light roasts.
  - thrixton 2y ago
    How did you go about roasting your own if you don’t mind me asking.
    - panopticon 2y ago
      It was a journey! My wife got me a roaster for Christmas several years ago, and I had absolutely no idea how to use it. After tons of reading, YouTube, and trial-and-error I eventually got the hang of it. I still use the same roaster she bought me, but I upgraded to a double-walled chamber to make winter roasting more consistent and temperature probes [1] to record the roast process with Artisan [2]. Since collecting data is fun and makes it easier to get consistent results. I don't roast beans for cold brew anymore since I drink way too much and it was becoming a chore, but I still roast ~8oz every two weeks for pour overs. If you're interested there are a lot of great resources online. Sweet Maria's [3] has been a constant go-to for knowledge, equipment, and green coffee beans. And of course, YouTube. 1: https://imgur.com/T0WW90R https://imgur.com/T0WW90R 2: https://artisan-scope.org/ https://artisan-scope.org/ 3: https://www.sweetmarias.com/ https://www.sweetmarias.com/
WirelessGigabit 2y ago
> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Anecdotally, this is something I've experienced in the USA more than in Europe. When I ask a question in store a lot of times I get the feeling that the person answering considers themselves an expert and quickly make claims that I know for a fact are false. It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed.
- lb1lf 2y ago
  > It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed. -Anecdotally, I believe this sentiment is inversely related to worker protections - it appears that the easier it is to fire you, the less likely you are to volunteer that you are not at the top of your game at all times.
- dmix 2y ago
  You're saying Europeans are less smug than Americans?
  - Spivak 2y ago
    It's less about smugness and more that customer-service people are expected to behave like AI and always have an answer whether it's correct or not. I hope at some point we can drop the facade and "I don't know man, I just run the till. Do you want coffee or not?" becomes an acceptable response.
    - bigDinosaur 2y ago
      I can't speak for the US but people absolutely do not act like this in Europe (and Europe has some of the most arrogant self-assured service workers on the planet depending on the country - I won't name names but you can probably guess which country has the most extreme and limiting arrogance around what should or should not be done with coffee).
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
macNchz 2y ago
In my experience having worked in coffee shops, restaurants and bars, there is a considerable overlap between the people asking for something off-menu that nobody has ever asked for, and the people who will never be satisfied with their order. It might seem like a very simple ask, but I think many people working in those jobs have learned it can be expedient to just say “we can’t do that” and short circuit the interaction, rather than to attempt whatever it is, have the customer send it back, attempt it again and have the customer start insulting them for not being able to “get it right”. This is particularly the case if there’s any sort of line, where one person sending something back will make every other customer angry. I’m not at all saying you are doing this yourself, just offering context on why you might encounter this reaction. As in many fields, a fraction of people are kind of awful and unfortunately their behavior winds up shaping how many things operate.
- dahart 2y ago
  I can understand that. I do feel like the reaction I’m sometimes getting is reflexive and not given any thought. My daughter worked at Starbucks for a while, and told me about crappy customers doing this all the time - ordering drinks with questionable modifications and then sending them back when it wasn’t as good as they hoped. Her initial reaction to my steamed cold brew story was that I’m asking for something unusual. For the record, I have never sent back a warmed cold-brew for any reason. That said, part of what I’m blabbering on about is that I think cold-brew served hot should not be considered off-menu, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Since cold brew served cold is an assumption in the first place, it seems like hot cold-brew is (or should be considered) just as on-menu as cold-served cold-brew. It’s fine that the assumption exists, I just don’t understand the pushback when I specify warm. I feel like calling a steamed cold-brew off-menu is exaggerating, considering that a) iced coffee exists; b) steaming espresso drinks is extremely common(!); c) many cafes that make espresso drinks essentially offer all combinations of brewing process, coffee, milks of various kinds, and flavorings. It’s so crazy to me to get shit for asking for a steamed cold-brew when something like a Caramel Ribbon Crunch Frappuccino with an Affogato shot and extra espresso exists and isn’t even considered weird or extreme. Maybe some cafes are pushing back against customers with Starbucks expectations, but they still offer a selection like espresso, cortado, mocha, latte, americano, flat white, blah blah blah. It’s like Mexican food, there is a name for every possible permutation of grounds, water, milk, sugar, and heat. Given that they have cold-brew, that they have a steamer, and that serving hot coffee and steaming things are both standard every-day every-order kinds of things, I simply can’t understand why I’d get pushback even if I am asking for something weird. I’m asking for something weird that is completely and trivially doable. Anyway, you’re right. I know I’m peeing into the wind just a little. It is what it is, which is why it’s a waste of energy to fight it or complain about it. :P

by dahart 2y ago

kurthr 2y ago

It's funny cuz Charbux has no problem pouring hot espresso into cold ice milk with caramel and cream on top. I think it's pretty clearly just "baristas" justifying not changing their process, which is fine if a bit lazy and argumentative. Many coffee people are totally interested in finding new ways to do stuff, but they have to have the mental space to do it.

LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
Funny. Exactly that stuff is the only reason I've ever entered a Starbucks. Venti! But TBH one can do that with better coffee, caramel sirup, some crushed ice from the fridge, and even spray cream out of a can for much less money, just not 'on-demand' and anywhere/anytime. Also, too much (spray) cream and caramel in Venti amounts can't be that good for your body.
- waldothedog 2y ago
  Why not trenta?
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    Burst prevention. edit: Also price, the last time I had that it was about 6EUR for Venti, while that even bigger thing would have been just slightly under 10EUR. Which I think of as insane, considering the not that special ingredients. That was years ago, long before COVID. Didn't go there afterwards, neither in .de, .eur, or the .us. Don't want to support that franchise chain mindfuckery.
hinkley 2y ago
Pouring hot coffee onto plastic…
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
look_lookatme 2y ago
Starbucks cold brew is actually not bad as far as cold brews go. It’s definitely not iced coffee.
- toast0 2y ago
  They do serve both, and they're different. Close enough for me, so I get the iced coffee cause it costs less and I respond to incentives.

NoGravitas 2y ago

> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Light roasts came (back?) into style among coffee snobs a few years ago because it highlights the difference between different sources/regions/whatever. Ever since then, the former best coffee shop in my town has been exclusively producing sour, vegetal, under-extracted brews. The justified reaction to Charbucks among coffee snobs has produced an objectively worse cup of coffee.

panopticon 2y ago
This is mainly what got me into roasting my own coffee. It was becoming a pain to find high quality dark roasts as all of the boutique roasters turned their efforts to light roasts.
- thrixton 2y ago
  How did you go about roasting your own if you don’t mind me asking.
  - panopticon 2y ago
    It was a journey! My wife got me a roaster for Christmas several years ago, and I had absolutely no idea how to use it. After tons of reading, YouTube, and trial-and-error I eventually got the hang of it. I still use the same roaster she bought me, but I upgraded to a double-walled chamber to make winter roasting more consistent and temperature probes [1] to record the roast process with Artisan [2]. Since collecting data is fun and makes it easier to get consistent results. I don't roast beans for cold brew anymore since I drink way too much and it was becoming a chore, but I still roast ~8oz every two weeks for pour overs. If you're interested there are a lot of great resources online. Sweet Maria's [3] has been a constant go-to for knowledge, equipment, and green coffee beans. And of course, YouTube. 1: https://imgur.com/T0WW90R https://imgur.com/T0WW90R 2: https://artisan-scope.org/ https://artisan-scope.org/ 3: https://www.sweetmarias.com/ https://www.sweetmarias.com/

WirelessGigabit 2y ago

> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Anecdotally, this is something I've experienced in the USA more than in Europe. When I ask a question in store a lot of times I get the feeling that the person answering considers themselves an expert and quickly make claims that I know for a fact are false. It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed.

lb1lf 2y ago
> It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed. -Anecdotally, I believe this sentiment is inversely related to worker protections - it appears that the easier it is to fire you, the less likely you are to volunteer that you are not at the top of your game at all times.
dmix 2y ago
You're saying Europeans are less smug than Americans?
- Spivak 2y ago
  It's less about smugness and more that customer-service people are expected to behave like AI and always have an answer whether it's correct or not. I hope at some point we can drop the facade and "I don't know man, I just run the till. Do you want coffee or not?" becomes an acceptable response.
  - bigDinosaur 2y ago
    I can't speak for the US but people absolutely do not act like this in Europe (and Europe has some of the most arrogant self-assured service workers on the planet depending on the country - I won't name names but you can probably guess which country has the most extreme and limiting arrogance around what should or should not be done with coffee).
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago

macNchz 2y ago

In my experience having worked in coffee shops, restaurants and bars, there is a considerable overlap between the people asking for something off-menu that nobody has ever asked for, and the people who will never be satisfied with their order. It might seem like a very simple ask, but I think many people working in those jobs have learned it can be expedient to just say “we can’t do that” and short circuit the interaction, rather than to attempt whatever it is, have the customer send it back, attempt it again and have the customer start insulting them for not being able to “get it right”. This is particularly the case if there’s any sort of line, where one person sending something back will make every other customer angry. I’m not at all saying you are doing this yourself, just offering context on why you might encounter this reaction. As in many fields, a fraction of people are kind of awful and unfortunately their behavior winds up shaping how many things operate.

dahart 2y ago
I can understand that. I do feel like the reaction I’m sometimes getting is reflexive and not given any thought. My daughter worked at Starbucks for a while, and told me about crappy customers doing this all the time - ordering drinks with questionable modifications and then sending them back when it wasn’t as good as they hoped. Her initial reaction to my steamed cold brew story was that I’m asking for something unusual. For the record, I have never sent back a warmed cold-brew for any reason. That said, part of what I’m blabbering on about is that I think cold-brew served hot should not be considered off-menu, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Since cold brew served cold is an assumption in the first place, it seems like hot cold-brew is (or should be considered) just as on-menu as cold-served cold-brew. It’s fine that the assumption exists, I just don’t understand the pushback when I specify warm. I feel like calling a steamed cold-brew off-menu is exaggerating, considering that a) iced coffee exists; b) steaming espresso drinks is extremely common(!); c) many cafes that make espresso drinks essentially offer all combinations of brewing process, coffee, milks of various kinds, and flavorings. It’s so crazy to me to get shit for asking for a steamed cold-brew when something like a Caramel Ribbon Crunch Frappuccino with an Affogato shot and extra espresso exists and isn’t even considered weird or extreme. Maybe some cafes are pushing back against customers with Starbucks expectations, but they still offer a selection like espresso, cortado, mocha, latte, americano, flat white, blah blah blah. It’s like Mexican food, there is a name for every possible permutation of grounds, water, milk, sugar, and heat. Given that they have cold-brew, that they have a steamer, and that serving hot coffee and steaming things are both standard every-day every-order kinds of things, I simply can’t understand why I’d get pushback even if I am asking for something weird. I’m asking for something weird that is completely and trivially doable. Anyway, you’re right. I know I’m peeing into the wind just a little. It is what it is, which is why it’s a waste of energy to fight it or complain about it. :P