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Thank you for saying this. When cold brew first came out, it was promoted as a brewing process that resulted in smoother (I'm guessing lower acidity) tasting co

Thank you for saying this. When cold brew first came out, it was promoted as a brewing process that resulted in smoother (I'm guessing lower acidity) tasting coffee. Heating it up seemed natural, and its use in iced coffee seemed simply opportunistic. (In my experience at least). Then it quickly caught on as a novelty, with nitro et al, and when I tell people I drink cold brew warmed I get looks of confusion or turned up noses. But brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal.

dahart 2y ago
> brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal Yes!!! I’m biting my tongue a little on how infuriating the process has been to ask cafes for warmed cold brews, but you’re spot on and exactly right. I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. (Or, in a few cases in my sampling I’m certain it was willful ignorance, laziness, because it takes a little more work and more space to cold brew.) I will say that one of my local cafes understood completely and they’re happy to make hot cold-brewed coffee, and made me feel welcome for asking for it. One or two others were very good about it, but hands down the majority of cafes were a bad experience when asking for a warmed cold brew. Good luck to them, they’ve lost my business.
- kurthr 2y ago
  It's funny cuz Charbux has no problem pouring hot espresso into cold ice milk with caramel and cream on top. I think it's pretty clearly just "baristas" justifying not changing their process, which is fine if a bit lazy and argumentative. Many coffee people are totally interested in finding new ways to do stuff, but they have to have the mental space to do it.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
    Funny. Exactly that stuff is the only reason I've ever entered a Starbucks. Venti! But TBH one can do that with better coffee, caramel sirup, some crushed ice from the fridge, and even spray cream out of a can for much less money, just not 'on-demand' and anywhere/anytime. Also, too much (spray) cream and caramel in Venti amounts can't be that good for your body.
    - waldothedog 2y ago
      Why not trenta?
      - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
        Burst prevention. edit: Also price, the last time I had that it was about 6EUR for Venti, while that even bigger thing would have been just slightly under 10EUR. Which I think of as insane, considering the not that special ingredients. That was years ago, long before COVID. Didn't go there afterwards, neither in .de, .eur, or the .us. Don't want to support that franchise chain mindfuckery.
  - hinkley 2y ago
    Pouring hot coffee onto plastic…
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - look_lookatme 2y ago
    Starbucks cold brew is actually not bad as far as cold brews go. It’s definitely not iced coffee.
    - toast0 2y ago
      They do serve both, and they're different. Close enough for me, so I get the iced coffee cause it costs less and I respond to incentives.
- NoGravitas 2y ago
  > I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Light roasts came (back?) into style among coffee snobs a few years ago because it highlights the difference between different sources/regions/whatever. Ever since then, the former best coffee shop in my town has been exclusively producing sour, vegetal, under-extracted brews. The justified reaction to Charbucks among coffee snobs has produced an objectively worse cup of coffee.
  - panopticon 2y ago
    This is mainly what got me into roasting my own coffee. It was becoming a pain to find high quality dark roasts as all of the boutique roasters turned their efforts to light roasts.
    - thrixton 2y ago
      How did you go about roasting your own if you don’t mind me asking.
      - panopticon 2y ago
        It was a journey! My wife got me a roaster for Christmas several years ago, and I had absolutely no idea how to use it. After tons of reading, YouTube, and trial-and-error I eventually got the hang of it. I still use the same roaster she bought me, but I upgraded to a double-walled chamber to make winter roasting more consistent and temperature probes [1] to record the roast process with Artisan [2]. Since collecting data is fun and makes it easier to get consistent results. I don't roast beans for cold brew anymore since I drink way too much and it was becoming a chore, but I still roast ~8oz every two weeks for pour overs. If you're interested there are a lot of great resources online. Sweet Maria's [3] has been a constant go-to for knowledge, equipment, and green coffee beans. And of course, YouTube. 1: https://imgur.com/T0WW90R https://imgur.com/T0WW90R 2: https://artisan-scope.org/ https://artisan-scope.org/ 3: https://www.sweetmarias.com/ https://www.sweetmarias.com/
- WirelessGigabit 2y ago
  > I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Anecdotally, this is something I've experienced in the USA more than in Europe. When I ask a question in store a lot of times I get the feeling that the person answering considers themselves an expert and quickly make claims that I know for a fact are false. It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed.
  - lb1lf 2y ago
    > It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed. -Anecdotally, I believe this sentiment is inversely related to worker protections - it appears that the easier it is to fire you, the less likely you are to volunteer that you are not at the top of your game at all times.
  - dmix 2y ago
    You're saying Europeans are less smug than Americans?
    - Spivak 2y ago
      It's less about smugness and more that customer-service people are expected to behave like AI and always have an answer whether it's correct or not. I hope at some point we can drop the facade and "I don't know man, I just run the till. Do you want coffee or not?" becomes an acceptable response.
      - bigDinosaur 2y ago
        I can't speak for the US but people absolutely do not act like this in Europe (and Europe has some of the most arrogant self-assured service workers on the planet depending on the country - I won't name names but you can probably guess which country has the most extreme and limiting arrogance around what should or should not be done with coffee).
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
- macNchz 2y ago
  In my experience having worked in coffee shops, restaurants and bars, there is a considerable overlap between the people asking for something off-menu that nobody has ever asked for, and the people who will never be satisfied with their order. It might seem like a very simple ask, but I think many people working in those jobs have learned it can be expedient to just say “we can’t do that” and short circuit the interaction, rather than to attempt whatever it is, have the customer send it back, attempt it again and have the customer start insulting them for not being able to “get it right”. This is particularly the case if there’s any sort of line, where one person sending something back will make every other customer angry. I’m not at all saying you are doing this yourself, just offering context on why you might encounter this reaction. As in many fields, a fraction of people are kind of awful and unfortunately their behavior winds up shaping how many things operate.
  - dahart 2y ago
    I can understand that. I do feel like the reaction I’m sometimes getting is reflexive and not given any thought. My daughter worked at Starbucks for a while, and told me about crappy customers doing this all the time - ordering drinks with questionable modifications and then sending them back when it wasn’t as good as they hoped. Her initial reaction to my steamed cold brew story was that I’m asking for something unusual. For the record, I have never sent back a warmed cold-brew for any reason. That said, part of what I’m blabbering on about is that I think cold-brew served hot should not be considered off-menu, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Since cold brew served cold is an assumption in the first place, it seems like hot cold-brew is (or should be considered) just as on-menu as cold-served cold-brew. It’s fine that the assumption exists, I just don’t understand the pushback when I specify warm. I feel like calling a steamed cold-brew off-menu is exaggerating, considering that a) iced coffee exists; b) steaming espresso drinks is extremely common(!); c) many cafes that make espresso drinks essentially offer all combinations of brewing process, coffee, milks of various kinds, and flavorings. It’s so crazy to me to get shit for asking for a steamed cold-brew when something like a Caramel Ribbon Crunch Frappuccino with an Affogato shot and extra espresso exists and isn’t even considered weird or extreme. Maybe some cafes are pushing back against customers with Starbucks expectations, but they still offer a selection like espresso, cortado, mocha, latte, americano, flat white, blah blah blah. It’s like Mexican food, there is a name for every possible permutation of grounds, water, milk, sugar, and heat. Given that they have cold-brew, that they have a steamer, and that serving hot coffee and steaming things are both standard every-day every-order kinds of things, I simply can’t understand why I’d get pushback even if I am asking for something weird. I’m asking for something weird that is completely and trivially doable. Anyway, you’re right. I know I’m peeing into the wind just a little. It is what it is, which is why it’s a waste of energy to fight it or complain about it. :P
ada1981 2y ago
The more complex, expensive and counter intuitive your morning coffee, the better! 90% of the experience is looking cool!
- ok123456 2y ago
  You can buy cold brew coffee at Costco in bulk in cans. Just throw some in the fridge.
  - klyrs 2y ago
    I was excited by this in theory, but it's some of the worst cold brew I've had. For shame, Costco is usually pretty good for selecting quality. Then again, my favorite preparation of cold brew is a shot of concentrate straight from the toddy.
    - look_lookatme 2y ago
      I agree. Bought a flat of it a couple of months ago and haven’t drank more than half of them.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Pretension is nine tenths of the law
- lytfyre 2y ago
  Look, my coffee routine is _perfectly reasonable_. Fractional gram dosing, multiple pours at different temperatures, timed switch from immersion to percolation, and benchmarking different filter papers has a _measurable impact_ on my coffee. And I have the data and refractometry measurement data to show it. ... Admittedly the refractometer was expensive, and incorporating it into the routine is complex and not very intuitive. I can also assure you that I don't look cool while doing it.
  - ada1981 2y ago
    The entire hipster aesthetic is assuring people they don’t look cool in an attempt to look cool.
cratermoon 2y ago
As far as I can recall, I've always considered "cold" to apply to the brewing, not the drinking. I learned the technique as "brew extra strong, then add hot water to taste", and that's how I've been doing it since I bought my first cold-brew maker. Where I live we don't get a lot of hot weather, so drinking cold brew cold is strictly a high summer activity for me.
- taude 2y ago
  me, too. the Toddy brewer 30 years ago, even spoke of this. It was a way to premake your coffee concentrate, and then mix with water and microwave to heat up....
  - lamename 2y ago
    This was the first cold-brewing device I ever encountered....as a guest at someone else's house. Didn't know it had a name. Thanks!
  - cratermoon 2y ago
    That's exactly the one I started with, and used for years until the plastic got brittle and cracked.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
SamBam 2y ago
Barismo in Cambridge does (or did) a "hot draft" coffee, that is always on tap, is delicious, and is remarkably like hot cold brew. Their method is apparently a secret (although I'm sure more digging could find it), but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't basically on-demand heated cold brew. [1] 1. https://www.baristamagazine.com/the-function-and-future-of-batch-brew/ https://www.baristamagazine.com/the-function-and-future-of-b...
- Morizero 2y ago
  Thanks for the tip, I'll hit them up tomorrow!
Terr_ 2y ago
> But brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal. And if anyone doesn't believe this, challenge them to find a truly "iced" coffee. :p
- SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
  Coffee popsicles are easy to make. Or put coffee in an ice cube tray, freeze it, & use it instead of water ice when making a regular "iced" coffee. No dilution as the ice melts!
eddd-ddde 2y ago
I had zero idea that's what it was supposed to be. Cold brew reads to me as brew that is now cold. Wouldn't it be a better term cold-brew or something like that?

dahart 2y ago

> brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal Yes!!! I’m biting my tongue a little on how infuriating the process has been to ask cafes for warmed cold brews, but you’re spot on and exactly right. I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. (Or, in a few cases in my sampling I’m certain it was willful ignorance, laziness, because it takes a little more work and more space to cold brew.) I will say that one of my local cafes understood completely and they’re happy to make hot cold-brewed coffee, and made me feel welcome for asking for it. One or two others were very good about it, but hands down the majority of cafes were a bad experience when asking for a warmed cold brew. Good luck to them, they’ve lost my business.

kurthr 2y ago
It's funny cuz Charbux has no problem pouring hot espresso into cold ice milk with caramel and cream on top. I think it's pretty clearly just "baristas" justifying not changing their process, which is fine if a bit lazy and argumentative. Many coffee people are totally interested in finding new ways to do stuff, but they have to have the mental space to do it.
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
  Funny. Exactly that stuff is the only reason I've ever entered a Starbucks. Venti! But TBH one can do that with better coffee, caramel sirup, some crushed ice from the fridge, and even spray cream out of a can for much less money, just not 'on-demand' and anywhere/anytime. Also, too much (spray) cream and caramel in Venti amounts can't be that good for your body.
  - waldothedog 2y ago
    Why not trenta?
    - LargoLasskhyfv 2y ago
      Burst prevention. edit: Also price, the last time I had that it was about 6EUR for Venti, while that even bigger thing would have been just slightly under 10EUR. Which I think of as insane, considering the not that special ingredients. That was years ago, long before COVID. Didn't go there afterwards, neither in .de, .eur, or the .us. Don't want to support that franchise chain mindfuckery.
- hinkley 2y ago
  Pouring hot coffee onto plastic…
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- look_lookatme 2y ago
  Starbucks cold brew is actually not bad as far as cold brews go. It’s definitely not iced coffee.
  - toast0 2y ago
    They do serve both, and they're different. Close enough for me, so I get the iced coffee cause it costs less and I respond to incentives.
NoGravitas 2y ago
> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Light roasts came (back?) into style among coffee snobs a few years ago because it highlights the difference between different sources/regions/whatever. Ever since then, the former best coffee shop in my town has been exclusively producing sour, vegetal, under-extracted brews. The justified reaction to Charbucks among coffee snobs has produced an objectively worse cup of coffee.
- panopticon 2y ago
  This is mainly what got me into roasting my own coffee. It was becoming a pain to find high quality dark roasts as all of the boutique roasters turned their efforts to light roasts.
  - thrixton 2y ago
    How did you go about roasting your own if you don’t mind me asking.
    - panopticon 2y ago
      It was a journey! My wife got me a roaster for Christmas several years ago, and I had absolutely no idea how to use it. After tons of reading, YouTube, and trial-and-error I eventually got the hang of it. I still use the same roaster she bought me, but I upgraded to a double-walled chamber to make winter roasting more consistent and temperature probes [1] to record the roast process with Artisan [2]. Since collecting data is fun and makes it easier to get consistent results. I don't roast beans for cold brew anymore since I drink way too much and it was becoming a chore, but I still roast ~8oz every two weeks for pour overs. If you're interested there are a lot of great resources online. Sweet Maria's [3] has been a constant go-to for knowledge, equipment, and green coffee beans. And of course, YouTube. 1: https://imgur.com/T0WW90R https://imgur.com/T0WW90R 2: https://artisan-scope.org/ https://artisan-scope.org/ 3: https://www.sweetmarias.com/ https://www.sweetmarias.com/
WirelessGigabit 2y ago
> I’m baffled that so many people who sell coffee for a living, think they know a lot about it, and act like coffee snobs, don’t seem to understand what cold brew even is. Anecdotally, this is something I've experienced in the USA more than in Europe. When I ask a question in store a lot of times I get the feeling that the person answering considers themselves an expert and quickly make claims that I know for a fact are false. It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed.
- lb1lf 2y ago
  > It's like in the USA saying "I don't know, but let me get someone who does" isn't allowed. -Anecdotally, I believe this sentiment is inversely related to worker protections - it appears that the easier it is to fire you, the less likely you are to volunteer that you are not at the top of your game at all times.
- dmix 2y ago
  You're saying Europeans are less smug than Americans?
  - Spivak 2y ago
    It's less about smugness and more that customer-service people are expected to behave like AI and always have an answer whether it's correct or not. I hope at some point we can drop the facade and "I don't know man, I just run the till. Do you want coffee or not?" becomes an acceptable response.
    - bigDinosaur 2y ago
      I can't speak for the US but people absolutely do not act like this in Europe (and Europe has some of the most arrogant self-assured service workers on the planet depending on the country - I won't name names but you can probably guess which country has the most extreme and limiting arrogance around what should or should not be done with coffee).
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
macNchz 2y ago
In my experience having worked in coffee shops, restaurants and bars, there is a considerable overlap between the people asking for something off-menu that nobody has ever asked for, and the people who will never be satisfied with their order. It might seem like a very simple ask, but I think many people working in those jobs have learned it can be expedient to just say “we can’t do that” and short circuit the interaction, rather than to attempt whatever it is, have the customer send it back, attempt it again and have the customer start insulting them for not being able to “get it right”. This is particularly the case if there’s any sort of line, where one person sending something back will make every other customer angry. I’m not at all saying you are doing this yourself, just offering context on why you might encounter this reaction. As in many fields, a fraction of people are kind of awful and unfortunately their behavior winds up shaping how many things operate.
- dahart 2y ago
  I can understand that. I do feel like the reaction I’m sometimes getting is reflexive and not given any thought. My daughter worked at Starbucks for a while, and told me about crappy customers doing this all the time - ordering drinks with questionable modifications and then sending them back when it wasn’t as good as they hoped. Her initial reaction to my steamed cold brew story was that I’m asking for something unusual. For the record, I have never sent back a warmed cold-brew for any reason. That said, part of what I’m blabbering on about is that I think cold-brew served hot should not be considered off-menu, I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Since cold brew served cold is an assumption in the first place, it seems like hot cold-brew is (or should be considered) just as on-menu as cold-served cold-brew. It’s fine that the assumption exists, I just don’t understand the pushback when I specify warm. I feel like calling a steamed cold-brew off-menu is exaggerating, considering that a) iced coffee exists; b) steaming espresso drinks is extremely common(!); c) many cafes that make espresso drinks essentially offer all combinations of brewing process, coffee, milks of various kinds, and flavorings. It’s so crazy to me to get shit for asking for a steamed cold-brew when something like a Caramel Ribbon Crunch Frappuccino with an Affogato shot and extra espresso exists and isn’t even considered weird or extreme. Maybe some cafes are pushing back against customers with Starbucks expectations, but they still offer a selection like espresso, cortado, mocha, latte, americano, flat white, blah blah blah. It’s like Mexican food, there is a name for every possible permutation of grounds, water, milk, sugar, and heat. Given that they have cold-brew, that they have a steamer, and that serving hot coffee and steaming things are both standard every-day every-order kinds of things, I simply can’t understand why I’d get pushback even if I am asking for something weird. I’m asking for something weird that is completely and trivially doable. Anyway, you’re right. I know I’m peeing into the wind just a little. It is what it is, which is why it’s a waste of energy to fight it or complain about it. :P

ada1981 2y ago

The more complex, expensive and counter intuitive your morning coffee, the better! 90% of the experience is looking cool!

ok123456 2y ago
You can buy cold brew coffee at Costco in bulk in cans. Just throw some in the fridge.
- klyrs 2y ago
  I was excited by this in theory, but it's some of the worst cold brew I've had. For shame, Costco is usually pretty good for selecting quality. Then again, my favorite preparation of cold brew is a shot of concentrate straight from the toddy.
  - look_lookatme 2y ago
    I agree. Bought a flat of it a couple of months ago and haven’t drank more than half of them.
Y_Y 2y ago
Pretension is nine tenths of the law
lytfyre 2y ago
Look, my coffee routine is _perfectly reasonable_. Fractional gram dosing, multiple pours at different temperatures, timed switch from immersion to percolation, and benchmarking different filter papers has a _measurable impact_ on my coffee. And I have the data and refractometry measurement data to show it. ... Admittedly the refractometer was expensive, and incorporating it into the routine is complex and not very intuitive. I can also assure you that I don't look cool while doing it.
- ada1981 2y ago
  The entire hipster aesthetic is assuring people they don’t look cool in an attempt to look cool.

cratermoon 2y ago

As far as I can recall, I've always considered "cold" to apply to the brewing, not the drinking. I learned the technique as "brew extra strong, then add hot water to taste", and that's how I've been doing it since I bought my first cold-brew maker. Where I live we don't get a lot of hot weather, so drinking cold brew cold is strictly a high summer activity for me.

taude 2y ago
me, too. the Toddy brewer 30 years ago, even spoke of this. It was a way to premake your coffee concentrate, and then mix with water and microwave to heat up....
- lamename 2y ago
  This was the first cold-brewing device I ever encountered....as a guest at someone else's house. Didn't know it had a name. Thanks!
- cratermoon 2y ago
  That's exactly the one I started with, and used for years until the plastic got brittle and cracked.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

SamBam 2y ago

Barismo in Cambridge does (or did) a "hot draft" coffee, that is always on tap, is delicious, and is remarkably like hot cold brew. Their method is apparently a secret (although I'm sure more digging could find it), but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't basically on-demand heated cold brew. [1] 1. https://www.baristamagazine.com/the-function-and-future-of-batch-brew/ https://www.baristamagazine.com/the-function-and-future-of-b...

Morizero 2y ago
Thanks for the tip, I'll hit them up tomorrow!

Terr_ 2y ago

> But brew temp and serving temp are orthogonal. And if anyone doesn't believe this, challenge them to find a truly "iced" coffee. :p

SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
Coffee popsicles are easy to make. Or put coffee in an ice cube tray, freeze it, & use it instead of water ice when making a regular "iced" coffee. No dilution as the ice melts!

eddd-ddde 2y ago

I had zero idea that's what it was supposed to be. Cold brew reads to me as brew that is now cold. Wouldn't it be a better term cold-brew or something like that?