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> M4 makes the new iPad Pro an outrageously powerful device for artificial intelligence. Isn’t there a ToS prohibition about “custom coding” in iOS? Like, the

by dsign 2y ago

> M4 makes the new iPad Pro an outrageously powerful device for artificial intelligence. Isn’t there a ToS prohibition about “custom coding” in iOS? Like, the only way you can ever use that hardware directly is for developers who go through Apple Developer Program, which last time I heard was bitter lemon? Tell me if I’m wrong.

freedomben 2y ago
Well, this is the heart of the "appliance" model. iPads are appliances. You wouldn't ask about running custom code on your toaster or your blender, so you shouldn't ask about that for your iPad. Also all the common reasons apply: Security and Privacy, Quality Control, Platform Stability and Compatibility, and Integrated User Experience. All of these things are harmed when you are allowed to run custom coding. (disclaimer: My personal opinion is that the "appliance" model is absurd, but I've tried to steel-man the case for it)
- jebarker 2y ago
  Lots of people ask about running custom code on other appliances. I think they call them hackers.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    I think you're reinforcing Apple's point about how security is harmed by allowing custom code.
- kibwen 2y ago
  > You wouldn't ask about running custom code on your toaster or your blender, so you shouldn't ask about that for your iPad. Of course I would, and the only reason other people wouldn't is because they're conditioned to believe in their own innate powerlessness. If you sell me a CPU, I want the power to program it, period.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    I mean this sincerely, are you really an Apple customer then? I feel exactly the same as you, and for that reason I don't buy Apple products. They are honest about what they sell, which I appreciate.
    - judge2020 2y ago
      Some arguments are that you shouldn’t be able to create appliances, only general purpose machines.
      - taylodl 2y ago
        Ever notice people don't build their own cars anymore? They used to even up through the 60's. I mean ordering a kit or otherwise purchasing all the components and building the car. Nowadays it's very rare that people do that. I'm old enough to remember when people literally built their own computers, soldering iron in hand. People haven't done that since the early 80's. Steve Jobs' vision of the Mac, released in 1984, was for it to be a computing appliance - "the computer for the rest of us." The technology of the day prevented that. Though they pushed that as hard as they could. Today's iPad? It's the fulfillment of Steve Jobs' original vision of the Mac: a computing appliance. It took 40 years, but we're here. If you don't want a computing appliance then don't buy an iPad. I'd go further and argue don't buy any tablet device. Those that don't want computing appliances don't have to buy them. It's not like laptops, or even desktops, are going anywhere anytime soon.
        kibwen 2y ago
        > If you don't want a computing appliance then don't buy an iPad. If you do want a computing appliance, then there's nothing wrong with having a machine that could be reprogrammed that you simply choose not to reprogram. Please stop advocating for a worse world for the rest of us when it doesn't benefit you in the slightest to have a machine that you don't control.
        2y ago
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  If I could deploy to my blender as easily as I can to AWS, then I would _definitely_ at least try it.
- paxys 2y ago
  An appliance manufacturer isn't doing an entire press event highlighting how fast the CPU on the appliance is.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    If its advertised like a general purpose computer, expectations should be met.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Agree completely. I think it's absurd that they talk about technical things like CPU and memory in these announcements. It seems to me like an admission that it's not really an "appliance" but trying to translate Apple marketing into logical/coherent concepts can be a frustrating experience. I just don't try anymore.
- ben-schaaf 2y ago
  I appreciate the steel-man. A strong counter argument for me is that you actually can run any custom code on an iPad, as long as it's in a web-browser. This is very unlike an appliance where doing so is not possible. Clearly the intention is for arbitrary custom code to run on it, which makes it a personal computer and not an appliance (and should be regulated as such).
  - freedomben 2y ago
    That's a fair point, although (steel-manning) the "custom code" in the browser is severely restricted/sandboxed, unlike "native" code would be. So from that perspective, you could maybe expand it to be like a toaster that has thousands of buttons that can make for hyper-specific stuff, but can't go outside of the limits the manufacturer built in.
eqvinox 2y ago
As with any Apple device — or honestly, any computing device in general — my criteria of evaluation would be the resulting performance if I install Linux on it. (If Linux is not installable on the device, the performance is zero. If Linux driver support is limited, causing performance issues, that is also part of the equation.) NB: those are my criteria of evaluation. Very personally. I'm a software engineer, with a focus on systems/embedded. Your criteria are yours. (But maybe don't complain if you buy this for its "AI" capabilities only to find out that Apple doesn't let you do anything "unapproved" with it. You had sufficient chance to see the warning signs.)
- pbronez 2y ago
  It looks like Asahi Linux can run on Apple Silicon iPads… but you have to use an exploit like checkm8 to get past the locked bootloader https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/comments/ttsshm/asahi_linux_ipad_pro/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/comments/ttsshm/asahi_li...
killerstorm 2y ago
It means you can deliver AI apps to users. E.g. generate images.
philipwhiuk 2y ago
C'mon man, it's 2024, they can't just not mention AI in a press release.
sergiotapia 2y ago
You're not wrong. It's why I don't use apple hardware anymore for work or play. On Android and Windows I can build and install whatever I like, without having to go through mother-Apple for permission.
wishfish 2y ago
There's the potential option of Swift Playgrounds which would let you write / run code directly on the iPad without any involvement in the developer program.

by dsign 2y ago

freedomben 2y ago

Well, this is the heart of the "appliance" model. iPads are appliances. You wouldn't ask about running custom code on your toaster or your blender, so you shouldn't ask about that for your iPad. Also all the common reasons apply: Security and Privacy, Quality Control, Platform Stability and Compatibility, and Integrated User Experience. All of these things are harmed when you are allowed to run custom coding. (disclaimer: My personal opinion is that the "appliance" model is absurd, but I've tried to steel-man the case for it)

jebarker 2y ago
Lots of people ask about running custom code on other appliances. I think they call them hackers.
- freedomben 2y ago
  I think you're reinforcing Apple's point about how security is harmed by allowing custom code.
kibwen 2y ago
> You wouldn't ask about running custom code on your toaster or your blender, so you shouldn't ask about that for your iPad. Of course I would, and the only reason other people wouldn't is because they're conditioned to believe in their own innate powerlessness. If you sell me a CPU, I want the power to program it, period.
- freedomben 2y ago
  I mean this sincerely, are you really an Apple customer then? I feel exactly the same as you, and for that reason I don't buy Apple products. They are honest about what they sell, which I appreciate.
  - judge2020 2y ago
    Some arguments are that you shouldn’t be able to create appliances, only general purpose machines.
    - taylodl 2y ago
      Ever notice people don't build their own cars anymore? They used to even up through the 60's. I mean ordering a kit or otherwise purchasing all the components and building the car. Nowadays it's very rare that people do that. I'm old enough to remember when people literally built their own computers, soldering iron in hand. People haven't done that since the early 80's. Steve Jobs' vision of the Mac, released in 1984, was for it to be a computing appliance - "the computer for the rest of us." The technology of the day prevented that. Though they pushed that as hard as they could. Today's iPad? It's the fulfillment of Steve Jobs' original vision of the Mac: a computing appliance. It took 40 years, but we're here. If you don't want a computing appliance then don't buy an iPad. I'd go further and argue don't buy any tablet device. Those that don't want computing appliances don't have to buy them. It's not like laptops, or even desktops, are going anywhere anytime soon.
      - kibwen 2y ago
        > If you don't want a computing appliance then don't buy an iPad. If you do want a computing appliance, then there's nothing wrong with having a machine that could be reprogrammed that you simply choose not to reprogram. Please stop advocating for a worse world for the rest of us when it doesn't benefit you in the slightest to have a machine that you don't control.
        2y ago
shepherdjerred 2y ago
If I could deploy to my blender as easily as I can to AWS, then I would _definitely_ at least try it.
paxys 2y ago
An appliance manufacturer isn't doing an entire press event highlighting how fast the CPU on the appliance is.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  If its advertised like a general purpose computer, expectations should be met.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Agree completely. I think it's absurd that they talk about technical things like CPU and memory in these announcements. It seems to me like an admission that it's not really an "appliance" but trying to translate Apple marketing into logical/coherent concepts can be a frustrating experience. I just don't try anymore.
ben-schaaf 2y ago
I appreciate the steel-man. A strong counter argument for me is that you actually can run any custom code on an iPad, as long as it's in a web-browser. This is very unlike an appliance where doing so is not possible. Clearly the intention is for arbitrary custom code to run on it, which makes it a personal computer and not an appliance (and should be regulated as such).
- freedomben 2y ago
  That's a fair point, although (steel-manning) the "custom code" in the browser is severely restricted/sandboxed, unlike "native" code would be. So from that perspective, you could maybe expand it to be like a toaster that has thousands of buttons that can make for hyper-specific stuff, but can't go outside of the limits the manufacturer built in.

eqvinox 2y ago

As with any Apple device — or honestly, any computing device in general — my criteria of evaluation would be the resulting performance if I install Linux on it. (If Linux is not installable on the device, the performance is zero. If Linux driver support is limited, causing performance issues, that is also part of the equation.) NB: those are my criteria of evaluation. Very personally. I'm a software engineer, with a focus on systems/embedded. Your criteria are yours. (But maybe don't complain if you buy this for its "AI" capabilities only to find out that Apple doesn't let you do anything "unapproved" with it. You had sufficient chance to see the warning signs.)

pbronez 2y ago
It looks like Asahi Linux can run on Apple Silicon iPads… but you have to use an exploit like checkm8 to get past the locked bootloader https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/comments/ttsshm/asahi_linux_ipad_pro/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AsahiLinux/comments/ttsshm/asahi_li...

killerstorm 2y ago

It means you can deliver AI apps to users. E.g. generate images.

philipwhiuk 2y ago

C'mon man, it's 2024, they can't just not mention AI in a press release.

sergiotapia 2y ago

You're not wrong. It's why I don't use apple hardware anymore for work or play. On Android and Windows I can build and install whatever I like, without having to go through mother-Apple for permission.

wishfish 2y ago

There's the potential option of Swift Playgrounds which would let you write / run code directly on the iPad without any involvement in the developer program.