3 ms·

I thought ships were a little different since they can just follow the regulations of their flagged country and skirt a lot of rules.

hunter2_ 2y ago
With the amount of overlapping vocabulary, I would've thought airplanes are basically just ships in the sky. Ports, captains, boarding, etc. Or are these used metaphorically, like virtual computer stuff versus physical office stuff (desktop, folder, etc.) where there's enough similarity to avoid making new words but they're operated quite differently?
- philipwhiuk 2y ago
  The need to overfly a country, vs just sail round, means that airlines need country's permission to fly into/through a country. Overflight privileges cost money. In addition protectionism has meant that you generally have to land or take off at an airport run by the flag you carry. So unlike shipping, a Malaysian airline can't fly from the US to UK. This means that airlines need to be based at their 'real' base of operations, they can't just register in a tax-shelter.
  - rob74 2y ago
    Additionally, the fact that passenger airplanes carry, well, passengers, while cargo ships don't, means that airlines are automatically under more scrutiny. Further to what you wrote, some airlines have even been blacklisted by e.g. the EU because of safety reasons, like PIA (the flag carrier of Pakistan!) from 2020 to 2023.
    - hunter2_ 2y ago
      I guess cargo tends to go more by ship and passengers tend to go more by plane, but all 4 combinations certainly exist so no need to assume 2 variables are being compared simultaneously.
cookiengineer 2y ago
Which is the country their rules should follow? Their flag? Their company's residency? Their production location? Guess what, all are bought and sold off for cheap on the market. Oh and they pay less than 1.5% taxes, usually, if they even pay taxes.
- dawnerd 2y ago
  I agree it's a tricky problem to solve without agreements in place governing it. The airline industry seems to have settled on you follow the laws of the destination country. Ships in particular though do everything they can to abuse flagging their ships with the most lax working regulations.
- paulmd 2y ago
  The union of the ruleset of the flag country, the source country, and the destination country seems pretty reasonable - you should have to follow all three. Obviously not how it’s currently done, it’s an industry that has been doing it by flagging out of places like Liberia or Mauritania since time immemorial, but we can clearly do better. If this causes conflicts that make certain flags legally incompatible with certain combinations of sources and destinations - good. Those flags-of-convenience can harmonize their rules to the rest of the world. The environment and human rights will benefit.
noir_lord 2y ago
(tongue in cheek) isn't that what boeing did with the FAA?

hunter2_ 2y ago

With the amount of overlapping vocabulary, I would've thought airplanes are basically just ships in the sky. Ports, captains, boarding, etc. Or are these used metaphorically, like virtual computer stuff versus physical office stuff (desktop, folder, etc.) where there's enough similarity to avoid making new words but they're operated quite differently?

philipwhiuk 2y ago
The need to overfly a country, vs just sail round, means that airlines need country's permission to fly into/through a country. Overflight privileges cost money. In addition protectionism has meant that you generally have to land or take off at an airport run by the flag you carry. So unlike shipping, a Malaysian airline can't fly from the US to UK. This means that airlines need to be based at their 'real' base of operations, they can't just register in a tax-shelter.
- rob74 2y ago
  Additionally, the fact that passenger airplanes carry, well, passengers, while cargo ships don't, means that airlines are automatically under more scrutiny. Further to what you wrote, some airlines have even been blacklisted by e.g. the EU because of safety reasons, like PIA (the flag carrier of Pakistan!) from 2020 to 2023.
  - hunter2_ 2y ago
    I guess cargo tends to go more by ship and passengers tend to go more by plane, but all 4 combinations certainly exist so no need to assume 2 variables are being compared simultaneously.

cookiengineer 2y ago

Which is the country their rules should follow? Their flag? Their company's residency? Their production location? Guess what, all are bought and sold off for cheap on the market. Oh and they pay less than 1.5% taxes, usually, if they even pay taxes.

dawnerd 2y ago
I agree it's a tricky problem to solve without agreements in place governing it. The airline industry seems to have settled on you follow the laws of the destination country. Ships in particular though do everything they can to abuse flagging their ships with the most lax working regulations.
paulmd 2y ago
The union of the ruleset of the flag country, the source country, and the destination country seems pretty reasonable - you should have to follow all three. Obviously not how it’s currently done, it’s an industry that has been doing it by flagging out of places like Liberia or Mauritania since time immemorial, but we can clearly do better. If this causes conflicts that make certain flags legally incompatible with certain combinations of sources and destinations - good. Those flags-of-convenience can harmonize their rules to the rest of the world. The environment and human rights will benefit.

noir_lord 2y ago

(tongue in cheek) isn't that what boeing did with the FAA?