4 ms·

I still haven’t met the guy who is an algorithms genius who can’t program, but I can guarantee a license isn’t going to solve that problem.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
But being able to program is table stakes to be an effective developer. There better be a lot more to the interview if you are hoping to find rounded developers with proven experience at the level you are hiring for.
- citizen_friend 2y ago
  For engineers at the mid to low level where leet code dominates the trait to select for is ability to program and be reasonable to work with.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    At entry level fore sure, but not everyone is going to be equal after 5-10 years of experience. They'll all be able to code of course, but some will have gained valuable experience and moved on in capability and some won't, which of course is why you interview to be selective - to find those who can do more than just regurgitate LeetCode solutions.
    - arcticbull 2y ago
      > They'll all be able to code of course... I promise you that's not the case, lol.
gedy 2y ago
"Programming" is only half the battle. E.g. doesn't overcomplicate the codebase with weird one-off solutions, can actually work on features, some of which (God forbid) involve a UI or existing code. In 20 years, most leetcode style genius types I've worked with really aren't great at this type of SaaS work.
gopher_space 2y ago
What you want is someone who can break down a problem to the point where they can use the scientific method to come up with an algorithm on their own. What you get is someone with canned responses in their head. And resultant mass layoffs. We're trying to automate picking just the right puppy instead of going out and playing with a few of them.
weezin 2y ago
Programming is a very small part of the battle of being an effective software engineer. It leaves out: - communicating - teaching - dealing with ambiguity - navigating politics - working cross-functionally Most high level individual contributors at large tech companies don't even code.
- tracker1 2y ago
  As an addendum to "communicating" is documentation. That said, plenty of those who do document/communicate well can still suck at teaching/training at a higher level.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  What makes you say they don't even code? In my experience coding is indeed drastically reduced, but high level ICs still regularly code.
  - weezin 2y ago
    Looking at their commit history.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  i have experienced a lot of people who have convinced themselves they are adding value despite not coding, yes
  - weezin 2y ago
    System design isn't coding and reviewing all designs across 40+ people and leading cross team tech initiatives is a full time job.
humansareok1 2y ago
It's not about being able to program. It's much more about product sense and system design.

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago

But being able to program is table stakes to be an effective developer. There better be a lot more to the interview if you are hoping to find rounded developers with proven experience at the level you are hiring for.

citizen_friend 2y ago
For engineers at the mid to low level where leet code dominates the trait to select for is ability to program and be reasonable to work with.
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  At entry level fore sure, but not everyone is going to be equal after 5-10 years of experience. They'll all be able to code of course, but some will have gained valuable experience and moved on in capability and some won't, which of course is why you interview to be selective - to find those who can do more than just regurgitate LeetCode solutions.
  - arcticbull 2y ago
    > They'll all be able to code of course... I promise you that's not the case, lol.

gedy 2y ago

"Programming" is only half the battle. E.g. doesn't overcomplicate the codebase with weird one-off solutions, can actually work on features, some of which (God forbid) involve a UI or existing code. In 20 years, most leetcode style genius types I've worked with really aren't great at this type of SaaS work.

gopher_space 2y ago

What you want is someone who can break down a problem to the point where they can use the scientific method to come up with an algorithm on their own. What you get is someone with canned responses in their head. And resultant mass layoffs. We're trying to automate picking just the right puppy instead of going out and playing with a few of them.

weezin 2y ago

Programming is a very small part of the battle of being an effective software engineer. It leaves out: - communicating - teaching - dealing with ambiguity - navigating politics - working cross-functionally Most high level individual contributors at large tech companies don't even code.

tracker1 2y ago
As an addendum to "communicating" is documentation. That said, plenty of those who do document/communicate well can still suck at teaching/training at a higher level.
rockemsockem 2y ago
What makes you say they don't even code? In my experience coding is indeed drastically reduced, but high level ICs still regularly code.
- weezin 2y ago
  Looking at their commit history.
whimsicalism 2y ago
i have experienced a lot of people who have convinced themselves they are adding value despite not coding, yes
- weezin 2y ago
  System design isn't coding and reviewing all designs across 40+ people and leading cross team tech initiatives is a full time job.

humansareok1 2y ago

It's not about being able to program. It's much more about product sense and system design.