4 ms·

so what’s the alternative to the free market?

by sMarsIntruder 2y ago

cess11 2y ago
It's not a free market. Capitalism is about capital accumulation, not fair markets in some sense.
kibwen 2y ago
You can have free markets without having an aristocracy.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  You can’t have free markets if you use Motte and Bailey arguments to justify rejecting all forms of free markets, instead of just market failures.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
demondemidi 2y ago
you think the free market EVER existed? oh you sweet summer child. it has been owned and run by the ultra wealthy since day one. there is no "fair" with the free market, because not everything is equal. education, defense, banking, healthcare are not meant to turn a profit, but here we are.
- sMarsIntruder 2y ago
  I totally agree with you actually, but HN is pretty socialist these days and karma would go to negative in zero time.
immibis 2y ago
Capitalism isn't the free market. Capitalism is actually a rather unfree market. Free markets would be better.
triceratops 2y ago
Free markets with high taxes.
jmyeet 2y ago
"Free markets" are a myth. The only way a market can function is with a strong government because markets require regulation and courts to function. They require a stable financial system. None of this is possible without government. Sorry to all the anarcho-capitalists. Also, I didn't say "free markets". I said "capitalism". It's interesting that so many use these terms interchangeable and they're not interchangeable. For the longest time I knew people didn't know what socialism is. Thing is, most people don't actually know what capitalism is either. Markets aren't predicated on capitalism. Markets exist in every economic system and predate capitalism by thousands of years. Capitalism is merely who gets to extract the surplus value of labor. In feudalism it went to lords and kings. In capitalism, it goes to capital owners. They're otherwise functionally equivalent. We've simply replaced the divine right of kings to deifying the ultra-wealthy. EDIT: fixed typo
- quadrangle 2y ago
  typo, you likely meant "Markets are NOT predicated on capitalism." right?
- sMarsIntruder 2y ago
  thanks, but I’m not buying anything.

so what’s the alternative to the free market?

cess11 2y ago

It's not a free market. Capitalism is about capital accumulation, not fair markets in some sense.

kibwen 2y ago

You can have free markets without having an aristocracy.

mr_toad 2y ago
You can’t have free markets if you use Motte and Bailey arguments to justify rejecting all forms of free markets, instead of just market failures.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

demondemidi 2y ago

you think the free market EVER existed? oh you sweet summer child. it has been owned and run by the ultra wealthy since day one. there is no "fair" with the free market, because not everything is equal. education, defense, banking, healthcare are not meant to turn a profit, but here we are.

sMarsIntruder 2y ago
I totally agree with you actually, but HN is pretty socialist these days and karma would go to negative in zero time.

immibis 2y ago

Capitalism isn't the free market. Capitalism is actually a rather unfree market. Free markets would be better.

triceratops 2y ago

Free markets with high taxes.

jmyeet 2y ago

"Free markets" are a myth. The only way a market can function is with a strong government because markets require regulation and courts to function. They require a stable financial system. None of this is possible without government. Sorry to all the anarcho-capitalists. Also, I didn't say "free markets". I said "capitalism". It's interesting that so many use these terms interchangeable and they're not interchangeable. For the longest time I knew people didn't know what socialism is. Thing is, most people don't actually know what capitalism is either. Markets aren't predicated on capitalism. Markets exist in every economic system and predate capitalism by thousands of years. Capitalism is merely who gets to extract the surplus value of labor. In feudalism it went to lords and kings. In capitalism, it goes to capital owners. They're otherwise functionally equivalent. We've simply replaced the divine right of kings to deifying the ultra-wealthy. EDIT: fixed typo

quadrangle 2y ago
typo, you likely meant "Markets are NOT predicated on capitalism." right?
sMarsIntruder 2y ago
thanks, but I’m not buying anything.