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The heart of the issue is this: > Under Swiss law, Proton Mail was compelled to collect and provide information on the individual’s IP address to Swiss authori
by lordofgibbons 2y ago
The heart of the issue is this:
> Under Swiss law, Proton Mail was compelled to collect and provide information on the individual’s IP address to Swiss authorities, who then shared it with French police.
They can claim all the privacy guarantees they want, but unless the privacy is guaranteed by cryptography, it's an empty gesture. Nobody is willing to do prison time to protect your privacy.
- fbdab103 2y agoI think they should do like Mullvad claims and keep zero logs. You cannot share what you do not have.
- srockets 2y agoThis does not stop the host from being compelled to wiretap future communications. Just don't try to make encrypted email happen. It can't, and we don't need it to be. We have better solutions for encrypted communications, for those that need it.
- noname120 2y agoIt's harder and requires more red tape.
- GGO 2y agoyou can be required to keep logs - they need to design a system that cannot collect logs - You cannot share what you cannot have.
- binary132 2y agoI’d be more interested in a system that can prove to me that it’s not collecting logs. Hard, but not impossible.
- dheera 2y agoAs long as we are talking about classical communication (and not quantum) it is impossible to prove that it isn't collecting at least ciphertext logs.
- lordofgibbons 2y agoNot really. Tor, I2P, and Monero manage this just fine. Building on these technologies should allow one to have privacy and anonymity without any exotic quantum technology.
- EraYaN 2y agoWell they don't actually, Tor especially has enormous amounts of government nodes so they can trace and log exactly what and who. And all of those still rely on the IP network which always will allow logging without you ever knowing, it's just math really, the proof of not-logged is just impossible.
- beardog 2y agoInteresting, do you have a source? All fully p2p networks are vulnerable to sybil attacks to some extent, but specifically a source that Tor actively has enough "government nodes" to de-anonymize everything.
- dheera 2y agoThese technologies give privacy and anonymity under normal conditions, but they do not prevent anyone from logging ciphertexts. If someone has logged ciphertext, and the government subponies someone to divulge their private key and subponies whoever has the ciphertext, those ciphertexts as good as plain text.
- binary132 2y agoI mean, I don’t think anyone really expects that encrypted messages are necessarily secure in context of stolen private keys. I assume that a lot of encrypted traffic is either recorded at the ISP/backbone level or at least can be on demand.
- kaliqt 2y agoI mean it's clear, the governments of the world are colluding to ensure that all companies and users must incriminate themselves by collecting logs. They're trying to do the same with cryptography.
- yieldcrv 2y agogullible vpn fans believe anything or at least their favorite youtuber with the paid ads and zero domain knowledge of network topology serious question I have is whether “internet reseller” is a compelling service. because that's all that VPNs are, and I dont mind paying to use them for that purpose.
- noodlesUK 2y agoI would say that Mullvad seems to be the exception - they know their stuff. You can even pay with cash for even more anonymity.
- TheCoelacanth 2y agoHow would a recovery email feature be possible without them knowing what your recovery email is?
- fbdab103 2y agoIf you are super duper serious about securing yourself, recovery email is non-viable. Every piece of data is a potential vector towards exposure. Which comes directly into the problem of security vs convenience.
- TheCoelacanth 2y agoOf course, but you can't blame Proton that you chose to prioritize convenience over security. If you don't want Proton to know who you are, don't use that feature.
- weikju 2y ago> The heart of the issue is this: No, that was last year's issue. This time it's: > The core of the controversy stems from Proton Mail providing the Spanish police with the recovery email address associated with the Proton Mail account of an individual using the pseudonym ‘Xuxo Rondinaire.’ This individual is suspected of being a member of the Mossos d’Esquadra (Catalonia’s police force) and of using their internal knowledge to assist the Democratic Tsunami movement. and > Upon receiving the recovery email from Proton Mail, Spanish authorities further requested Apple to provide additional details linked to that email, leading to the identification of the individual.
- kube-system 2y agoYou could encrypt the source IP on all your outbound TCP packets, but it might not work very well.
- mmcallister 2y agoa minor point but you can't _encrypt_ source IPs, you can only obfuscate or more accurately, proxy.
- kube-system 2y agoI was being sarcastic. The suggestion above that the privacy of an IP address could be "guaranteed by cryptography" is silly. Cryptography is not a hammer that can be used for all problems. At some point you have to transmit your IP over the internet if you want a reply.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoIs the implication that you should use a VPN from a different provider? Like so you’re not getting email and VPN and whatever from the same place?
- tsimionescu 2y agoExpeacting a lawful corporation to shield you from the law is absurd. The state has the right to obtain this information - so, if you want it hidden, you need to find a provider that doesn't operate under the bounds of the law. You'll soon find out that A LOT of niceties go away once you're not dealing with legal matters: you can't guarantee that you'll get the service you payed for, you can't re-gain access if you lost your main security, etc.
- nabla9 2y agoProton Mail can't give email content, only things like email address, ip adressese etc. Email content is encrypted and Proton Mail has no access