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Owning a house does not mean not owing anyone a cent. You still owe multiple types of taxes to the government. You still need to get insurance. You still need t

Owning a house does not mean not owing anyone a cent. You still owe multiple types of taxes to the government. You still need to get insurance. You still need to make repairs. I actually find piece of mind in renting. I can always say screw it and move to the cheapest part of the country as I am getting closer to retirement age.

rnewme 2y ago
Selling that house before moving to the country side is surely amount to something
geraldwhen 2y ago
You can buy better neighbors with a house, and less crime.
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  > You can buy better neighbors with a house, and less crime. I wish! I built a fancy house in a fancy neighborhood, and then a real a-hole bought the house next to me as his retirement home.
  - bddgyrdfv 2y ago
    I feel this. Unfortunately the only surefire way to avoid this situation is to be the bigger asshole.
    - chihuahua 2y ago
      Not the only way. You can do what Bill Gates did, and buy all the surrounding properties. In his case, some of his staff live there.
      - r00fus 2y ago
        Billionaires do this - Zuckerberg did the same.
      - gwbas1c 2y ago
        I don't have that kind of money!
    - gwbas1c 2y ago
      Yup: After my a-hole neighbor yelled at me because he thought I was mowing his lawn, I got the property line surveyed and had him remove all the shrubs he planted on my land.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    Might be some selection bias happening. It's usually not the fancy neighborhoods that get a reputation for being humble and down to earth.
    - gwbas1c 2y ago
      A-hole neighbors have nothing to do with income level. I've also had a-hole neighbors who were dirt poor. In my case, the advantage is that I don't have to share a wall with my bad neighbor. Edit: I should add that the rest of my neighbors are awesome, Just like every other place I've lived.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Rent can increase faster than your income. Owning, even with higher carrying costs, derisks housing both from an expense and sourcing perspective.
- nyokodo 2y ago
  > Owning… derisks housing both from an expense and sourcing perspective Except if property taxes increase beyond affordability as they have for many folks in some states recently.
  - Loocid 2y ago
    Wouldn't their rent go up at a similar rate since the home owner would be copping those tax hikes anyway?
    - leetcrew 2y ago
      not necessarily. rent and market value are related, obviously, but they don't have to increase at the same rate. in some markets, property values can increase much faster than rent. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-to-rent-ratio.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-to-rent-ratio.asp
      - throwaway2037 2y ago
        Yeah, I agree. Rent is essentially capped by median income. If mortgage rates are cheap enough, housing prices will skyrocket, but median rent will barely budge.
    - readyman 2y ago
      Profit
  - erehweb 2y ago
    California limits increases in property taxes to 2% for this reason. More generally, property owners vote at a high rate, so governments will usually be less aggressive in increasing property taxes. Of course, they still go up, but it's generally less of a risk.
boznz 2y ago
The ongoing expenses of owning a house are still there, taxes, insurance, maintenance, electricity, garbage disposal, water, gas etc. if you can't cover these, you're not debt free. As you get over retirement age medical expenses could dwarf all these. you need to be more than debt-free you need to be debt-free and a good cashflow and emergency funds you can call on. Just as you get to the top of the hill there is always another one to climb.
- anonymousiam 2y ago
  Those expenses are not "debt" in the traditional sense. I've got two paid-off houses, and my annual combined expenses for them come to something around $20k/year.
paulcole 2y ago
> I can always say screw it and move to the cheapest part of the country as I am getting closer to retirement age. reply Something similar to this is why I prefer renting and why anyone who unshakeably believes renting is “throwing money away” is immediately suspicious to me. I’ve always tried to rent the cheapest (some would say crappiest) apartment in an area that I’ve really wanted to live. I’ve done quite well financially and in terms of lifestyle as a result. I would’ve done better financially by buying a home somewhere I don’t want to live, but what’s the point?
- dgfitz 2y ago
  It’s just a numbers thing. Applying emotion and trust (in your words) to a numerical financial decision is naive at best. I would try to change your mind with numbers and facts, but I can tell it would fall on deaf ears/eyes.
  - paulcole 2y ago
    Yeah I don’t deny there are ways to make more money than the choice I made. How would you answer the question I asked? > I would’ve done better financially by buying a home somewhere I don’t want to live, but what’s the point? Few decisions are purely numerical to most people. Or rather there are many decisions people claim are purely numerical and then make suboptimal numerical decisions on. It doesn’t make my choice a bad choice and doesn’t mean that I threw my money away on rent anymore than a homeowner threw their money away on a refrigerator, property taxes, etc. I exchanged a small amount of money for a place to live and had money left over to spend/invest in other ways and I got to live in an area I really love. I guess that’s what I get for being naive at best.
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      It was this comment: > Something similar to this is why I prefer renting and why anyone who unshakeably believes renting is “throwing money away” is immediately suspicious to me. That doesn't seem like a rational take. Renting IS throwing money away if your goal is to maximize wealth. Paying off a mortgage early when you can get a higher % return in the market than the interest rate of your loan is ALSO throwing money away. To try and claim you're generating more wealth by renting just isn't true. To claim you're living the lifestyle you prefer, great. To be suspicious of everyone who makes such a mild claim is a microchasm of why the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
dusted 2y ago
I own several houses, and even with taxes, maintenance and insurance, it's cheaper to own two than renting in the same area..
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
While what you’re saying sorta makes sense I think you’re missing that money spent on a mortgage goes into an appreciating asset that you own. Money on rent goes to pay for someone else’s appreciating asset you don’t own. Insurance isn’t that much and you have to pay taxes multiple times on all your money anyway but at least property has a chance to fight back a bit or hopefully outpace inflation. The money you earn today and sits in your bank is going to be worth very little in terms of spending power by the time you want to move somewhere cheap if you’re not keeping it in investments or property. We’re entering a dark time financially and there will be a significant quality of life difference in 20 years of those who have money in the right places today.
- upsertingdefl 2y ago
  >goes into an appreciating asset that you own Like any asset, it _could_ appreciate, but is not guaranteed. Where I live you can buy a house for 15-40K where normal prices in the country are 100-200K. It didn't use to be that way, last decade was all downhill for the city.
  - whywhywhywhy 2y ago
    If the housing market crashed in any meaningfully impactful wait there would be way bigger issues to worry about and you’d still only be in the same situation as a renter, maybe even still more well off.

rnewme 2y ago

Selling that house before moving to the country side is surely amount to something

geraldwhen 2y ago

You can buy better neighbors with a house, and less crime.

gwbas1c 2y ago
> You can buy better neighbors with a house, and less crime. I wish! I built a fancy house in a fancy neighborhood, and then a real a-hole bought the house next to me as his retirement home.
- bddgyrdfv 2y ago
  I feel this. Unfortunately the only surefire way to avoid this situation is to be the bigger asshole.
  - chihuahua 2y ago
    Not the only way. You can do what Bill Gates did, and buy all the surrounding properties. In his case, some of his staff live there.
    - r00fus 2y ago
      Billionaires do this - Zuckerberg did the same.
    - gwbas1c 2y ago
      I don't have that kind of money!
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    Yup: After my a-hole neighbor yelled at me because he thought I was mowing his lawn, I got the property line surveyed and had him remove all the shrubs he planted on my land.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  Might be some selection bias happening. It's usually not the fancy neighborhoods that get a reputation for being humble and down to earth.
  - gwbas1c 2y ago
    A-hole neighbors have nothing to do with income level. I've also had a-hole neighbors who were dirt poor. In my case, the advantage is that I don't have to share a wall with my bad neighbor. Edit: I should add that the rest of my neighbors are awesome, Just like every other place I've lived.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Rent can increase faster than your income. Owning, even with higher carrying costs, derisks housing both from an expense and sourcing perspective.

nyokodo 2y ago
> Owning… derisks housing both from an expense and sourcing perspective Except if property taxes increase beyond affordability as they have for many folks in some states recently.
- Loocid 2y ago
  Wouldn't their rent go up at a similar rate since the home owner would be copping those tax hikes anyway?
  - leetcrew 2y ago
    not necessarily. rent and market value are related, obviously, but they don't have to increase at the same rate. in some markets, property values can increase much faster than rent. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-to-rent-ratio.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-to-rent-ratio.asp
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      Yeah, I agree. Rent is essentially capped by median income. If mortgage rates are cheap enough, housing prices will skyrocket, but median rent will barely budge.
  - readyman 2y ago
    Profit
- erehweb 2y ago
  California limits increases in property taxes to 2% for this reason. More generally, property owners vote at a high rate, so governments will usually be less aggressive in increasing property taxes. Of course, they still go up, but it's generally less of a risk.

boznz 2y ago

The ongoing expenses of owning a house are still there, taxes, insurance, maintenance, electricity, garbage disposal, water, gas etc. if you can't cover these, you're not debt free. As you get over retirement age medical expenses could dwarf all these. you need to be more than debt-free you need to be debt-free and a good cashflow and emergency funds you can call on. Just as you get to the top of the hill there is always another one to climb.

anonymousiam 2y ago
Those expenses are not "debt" in the traditional sense. I've got two paid-off houses, and my annual combined expenses for them come to something around $20k/year.

paulcole 2y ago

> I can always say screw it and move to the cheapest part of the country as I am getting closer to retirement age. reply Something similar to this is why I prefer renting and why anyone who unshakeably believes renting is “throwing money away” is immediately suspicious to me. I’ve always tried to rent the cheapest (some would say crappiest) apartment in an area that I’ve really wanted to live. I’ve done quite well financially and in terms of lifestyle as a result. I would’ve done better financially by buying a home somewhere I don’t want to live, but what’s the point?

dgfitz 2y ago
It’s just a numbers thing. Applying emotion and trust (in your words) to a numerical financial decision is naive at best. I would try to change your mind with numbers and facts, but I can tell it would fall on deaf ears/eyes.
- paulcole 2y ago
  Yeah I don’t deny there are ways to make more money than the choice I made. How would you answer the question I asked? > I would’ve done better financially by buying a home somewhere I don’t want to live, but what’s the point? Few decisions are purely numerical to most people. Or rather there are many decisions people claim are purely numerical and then make suboptimal numerical decisions on. It doesn’t make my choice a bad choice and doesn’t mean that I threw my money away on rent anymore than a homeowner threw their money away on a refrigerator, property taxes, etc. I exchanged a small amount of money for a place to live and had money left over to spend/invest in other ways and I got to live in an area I really love. I guess that’s what I get for being naive at best.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    It was this comment: > Something similar to this is why I prefer renting and why anyone who unshakeably believes renting is “throwing money away” is immediately suspicious to me. That doesn't seem like a rational take. Renting IS throwing money away if your goal is to maximize wealth. Paying off a mortgage early when you can get a higher % return in the market than the interest rate of your loan is ALSO throwing money away. To try and claim you're generating more wealth by renting just isn't true. To claim you're living the lifestyle you prefer, great. To be suspicious of everyone who makes such a mild claim is a microchasm of why the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

dusted 2y ago

I own several houses, and even with taxes, maintenance and insurance, it's cheaper to own two than renting in the same area..

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

While what you’re saying sorta makes sense I think you’re missing that money spent on a mortgage goes into an appreciating asset that you own. Money on rent goes to pay for someone else’s appreciating asset you don’t own. Insurance isn’t that much and you have to pay taxes multiple times on all your money anyway but at least property has a chance to fight back a bit or hopefully outpace inflation. The money you earn today and sits in your bank is going to be worth very little in terms of spending power by the time you want to move somewhere cheap if you’re not keeping it in investments or property. We’re entering a dark time financially and there will be a significant quality of life difference in 20 years of those who have money in the right places today.

upsertingdefl 2y ago
>goes into an appreciating asset that you own Like any asset, it _could_ appreciate, but is not guaranteed. Where I live you can buy a house for 15-40K where normal prices in the country are 100-200K. It didn't use to be that way, last decade was all downhill for the city.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  If the housing market crashed in any meaningfully impactful wait there would be way bigger issues to worry about and you’d still only be in the same situation as a renter, maybe even still more well off.