6 ms·

Are there companies that are making better electric cars than Tesla? I'm genuinely curious. The vast majority of electrics I see in my city are Teslas with a

by _mlbt 2y ago

Are there companies that are making better electric cars than Tesla? I'm genuinely curious. The vast majority of electrics I see in my city are Teslas with a small sprinkling of Hyundais and Mustang Mach-Es thrown in. I don't see a lot of compelling reasons at this time to choose anything other than a Tesla Model 3 if I were to switch to an EV. Is there something I'm missing here? I don't think Tesla has any fears about the current batch of competition from other EVs. This hubris may prove to be a mistake down the road, only time will tell.

foxyv 2y ago
Toyota just announced the Beyond Zero series of BEVs starting with the bZ4X. It's a 71kwh 355volt and charges at level 3. But the Hyundais are absolutely amazing. Also, plugin hybrids have gotten to be VERY good. Honda also just released the Prologue. It's starting to look a little tough in the BEV market.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  What do you like so much about the Hyundais? Plugin hybrids are something I'm considering as well.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    Ioniq has MUCH better fast charging. Their high voltage batteries allow them to charge at 104 miles per 10 minutes or 640 miles per hour. The new Toyota and Hondas only charge about 60 miles per 10 minutes or 360 miles per hour. Also, I'm really hesitant to try anything from Toyota or Honda that is brand spanking new. First adopters tend to get hosed. Also it's easier to get parts and repairs for the Ioniq since it's been around for so much longer. However the Hyundais are a lot less reliable than I would like. My hands down favorite is the Prius Prime PHEV. Toyota's two motor E-CVT is probably the best transmission in the world and their motors are bomb proof with appropriate maintenance. Some people report refueling once a year.
  - jfim 2y ago
    I got a plug in hybrid (Lincoln Corsair) and I like it. If you can charge at home, most of your errands/commute is within the electric range, and you can set it to run solely off the battery, you can go several months without having to put gas in it. At the same time, if you do a road trip, you just put gas in it, no need to find chargers that work and install charging apps on your phone.
    - foxyv 2y ago
      I think plug in hybrids are the best compromise we could ask for at this point given current infrastructure. If we see a large public investment in charging, I think we would be seeing electric car adoption across the board. But until that happens, PHEVs are a good deal.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  The bZ4X is widely regarded as one of the worst EVs produced today. Nothing Toyota makes today should be considered meaningful in the BEV market. They make good hybrids, but that’s about it.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    Worst today, but I don't see that lasting long. Toyota tends to iterate and I wouldn't be surprised to see them dominate in the next 5 years. Unless it's just another "Compliance Car"
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      People have said that for 10 years with Toyota. They've had a headstart with their hybrids and have done nothing but squander it with Hydrogen aspirations and other nonsense compliance car type stuff. I'll believe it when I see it. Hyundai/Kia seem to be taking Toyota's place for the EV future here.
      - foxyv 2y ago
        Yeah, Hydrogen is a horrible idea. Maybe 20 years ago when BEVs were really lame, but now?
anon373839 2y ago
Porsche, Audi, Polestar have EV options that are way nicer than Teslas, and growing in popularity.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  Porsche, Audi, and Polestar are also way more expensive than a Tesla Model 3, so they should be nicer!
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    Polestars aren’t particularly more expensive than Teslas, but they also aren’t nicer either, honestly. Audi and Porsche are both nicer interiors, but they aren’t better in terms of range or tech necessarily.
    - ddalex 2y ago
      Polestar 2 is miles ahead of Tesla 3, both in interior comfort, and in handling. Teslas drive like a golf cart on steroids, Polestar drives like a driver's car.
      - Kirby64 2y ago
        I’ve driven a polestar 2 as a rental for a day and I cannot agree. Comfort was fine, a bit more cushy but nothing night and day. Interior is subjective and I thought the excessive use of cloth textiles was unlikely to wear well. Handling seemed… fine? I’m not driving this on a track, so both vehicles seemed adequately responsive. Also, the infotainment with android automotive was pretty underwhelming. I was hoping it’d be nicer in some useful way, but it just felt like android auto if you stuck all the vehicle controls in android auto too…
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Looks like, today, in Ireland (prices elsewhere in Europe will likely vary slightly, but should be mostly similar), a Tesla Model 3 starts at 39k after grants and relief, while an Audi Q4 e-tron starts at 41.5k. "Way more expensive" is probably pushing it. The closely related VW id.4 starts at 39k (the id.3, which is really a more direct competitor, at 35k).
aussiegreenie 2y ago
>Are there companies that are making better electric cars than Tesla? Yes, almost every large Chinese EV company has better cars than Tesla. Telsla's technology was the best many years ago but now it is years behind most other companies. Tesla's FSD is at least 5- years behind Mercedes-Benz and it purchases CATL batteries as they are better and cheaper. Also, every legacy automaker has better build quality eg Volkswagon or Hyundai, etc.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  You can't currently buy (or I think even legally drive on public roads?) Chinese EVs in the United States and many other countries. I'm also not interested in FSD. I am personally uncomfortable with the safety of this technology and I think that even the best implementations still need some more time in the oven.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    > You can't currently buy (or I think even legally drive on public roads?) Chinese EVs in the United States That is true. > and many other countries. 'Many' may be doing some pretty heavy lifting there; BYD at least is in all significant markets but the US.
malfist 2y ago
If you want a truck, you can get a ford lightning and have a regular truck and not whatever the cyber truck is
rsynnott 2y ago
The US, remember, isn't the world; just the third-largest electric car market. In Europe, and particularly in China, Tesla is far less dominant in the market.

by _mlbt 2y ago

foxyv 2y ago

Toyota just announced the Beyond Zero series of BEVs starting with the bZ4X. It's a 71kwh 355volt and charges at level 3. But the Hyundais are absolutely amazing. Also, plugin hybrids have gotten to be VERY good. Honda also just released the Prologue. It's starting to look a little tough in the BEV market.

_mlbt 2y ago
What do you like so much about the Hyundais? Plugin hybrids are something I'm considering as well.
- foxyv 2y ago
  Ioniq has MUCH better fast charging. Their high voltage batteries allow them to charge at 104 miles per 10 minutes or 640 miles per hour. The new Toyota and Hondas only charge about 60 miles per 10 minutes or 360 miles per hour. Also, I'm really hesitant to try anything from Toyota or Honda that is brand spanking new. First adopters tend to get hosed. Also it's easier to get parts and repairs for the Ioniq since it's been around for so much longer. However the Hyundais are a lot less reliable than I would like. My hands down favorite is the Prius Prime PHEV. Toyota's two motor E-CVT is probably the best transmission in the world and their motors are bomb proof with appropriate maintenance. Some people report refueling once a year.
- jfim 2y ago
  I got a plug in hybrid (Lincoln Corsair) and I like it. If you can charge at home, most of your errands/commute is within the electric range, and you can set it to run solely off the battery, you can go several months without having to put gas in it. At the same time, if you do a road trip, you just put gas in it, no need to find chargers that work and install charging apps on your phone.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    I think plug in hybrids are the best compromise we could ask for at this point given current infrastructure. If we see a large public investment in charging, I think we would be seeing electric car adoption across the board. But until that happens, PHEVs are a good deal.
Kirby64 2y ago
The bZ4X is widely regarded as one of the worst EVs produced today. Nothing Toyota makes today should be considered meaningful in the BEV market. They make good hybrids, but that’s about it.
- foxyv 2y ago
  Worst today, but I don't see that lasting long. Toyota tends to iterate and I wouldn't be surprised to see them dominate in the next 5 years. Unless it's just another "Compliance Car"
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    People have said that for 10 years with Toyota. They've had a headstart with their hybrids and have done nothing but squander it with Hydrogen aspirations and other nonsense compliance car type stuff. I'll believe it when I see it. Hyundai/Kia seem to be taking Toyota's place for the EV future here.
    - foxyv 2y ago
      Yeah, Hydrogen is a horrible idea. Maybe 20 years ago when BEVs were really lame, but now?

anon373839 2y ago

Porsche, Audi, Polestar have EV options that are way nicer than Teslas, and growing in popularity.

_mlbt 2y ago
Porsche, Audi, and Polestar are also way more expensive than a Tesla Model 3, so they should be nicer!
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Polestars aren’t particularly more expensive than Teslas, but they also aren’t nicer either, honestly. Audi and Porsche are both nicer interiors, but they aren’t better in terms of range or tech necessarily.
  - ddalex 2y ago
    Polestar 2 is miles ahead of Tesla 3, both in interior comfort, and in handling. Teslas drive like a golf cart on steroids, Polestar drives like a driver's car.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      I’ve driven a polestar 2 as a rental for a day and I cannot agree. Comfort was fine, a bit more cushy but nothing night and day. Interior is subjective and I thought the excessive use of cloth textiles was unlikely to wear well. Handling seemed… fine? I’m not driving this on a track, so both vehicles seemed adequately responsive. Also, the infotainment with android automotive was pretty underwhelming. I was hoping it’d be nicer in some useful way, but it just felt like android auto if you stuck all the vehicle controls in android auto too…
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Looks like, today, in Ireland (prices elsewhere in Europe will likely vary slightly, but should be mostly similar), a Tesla Model 3 starts at 39k after grants and relief, while an Audi Q4 e-tron starts at 41.5k. "Way more expensive" is probably pushing it. The closely related VW id.4 starts at 39k (the id.3, which is really a more direct competitor, at 35k).

aussiegreenie 2y ago

>Are there companies that are making better electric cars than Tesla? Yes, almost every large Chinese EV company has better cars than Tesla. Telsla's technology was the best many years ago but now it is years behind most other companies. Tesla's FSD is at least 5- years behind Mercedes-Benz and it purchases CATL batteries as they are better and cheaper. Also, every legacy automaker has better build quality eg Volkswagon or Hyundai, etc.

_mlbt 2y ago
You can't currently buy (or I think even legally drive on public roads?) Chinese EVs in the United States and many other countries. I'm also not interested in FSD. I am personally uncomfortable with the safety of this technology and I think that even the best implementations still need some more time in the oven.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > You can't currently buy (or I think even legally drive on public roads?) Chinese EVs in the United States That is true. > and many other countries. 'Many' may be doing some pretty heavy lifting there; BYD at least is in all significant markets but the US.

malfist 2y ago

If you want a truck, you can get a ford lightning and have a regular truck and not whatever the cyber truck is

rsynnott 2y ago

The US, remember, isn't the world; just the third-largest electric car market. In Europe, and particularly in China, Tesla is far less dominant in the market.