3 ms·

> Modern hard shells aren’t very waterproof in practice either because the membranes and DWR coatings aren’t very durable. If the membrane gets blocked (ice, o

by Maxion 2y ago

> Modern hard shells aren’t very waterproof in practice either because the membranes and DWR coatings aren’t very durable. If the membrane gets blocked (ice, or soaked with water) they stop breathing and you get soaked from your own sweat. Less waterprof alternatives can often be drier in practice.

_yb2s 2y ago
Exactly… I’ve found in goretex stuff that isn’t brand new, I get dangerously soaked from my own sweat, whereas I stay dry and comfortable in the rain with leather and lanolin wool gear. And “isn’t brand new” can mean just a few hours of actual use outdoors with lots of mud, brush, etc.
- jerlam 2y ago
  Being wet isn't that big of a deal, as you say people sweat and they don't die of exposure. The primary goal is to be warm. In the past, people spent all their time outdoors and fought wars without a trace of Gore-Tex or DWR. They wore wool underwear and cotton jackets. Now office workers think they need 3L Goretex for the scramble across the parking lot.
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    Getting wet in the wilderness can be a huge deal, especially when you stop moving.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    I disagree- getting wet is a huge deal, and is why breathability is generally more important than absolute waterproofness, especially if you are doing hard physical work. People do die from exposure in the wilderness after getting soaked with sweat, and then stopping to rest. I just don't think gore-tex and DWR are the best solutions for staying warm and dry... there are lots of other options that are more durable and keep you drier in practice. Besides the non-synthetic stuff above, I also prefer Columbia Outdry, and polyurethane with large zippered vents over gore-tex/DWR. In the real world, the breathability of gore-tex just isn't enough to be useful, it's close to a plastic bag. But I agree that for your average urban person doing a quick walk in the rain from a parking lot- just getting the outside of a sweater damp is no big deal, and they probably don't even need to own an expensive rain shell.

by Maxion 2y ago

_yb2s 2y ago

Exactly… I’ve found in goretex stuff that isn’t brand new, I get dangerously soaked from my own sweat, whereas I stay dry and comfortable in the rain with leather and lanolin wool gear. And “isn’t brand new” can mean just a few hours of actual use outdoors with lots of mud, brush, etc.

jerlam 2y ago
Being wet isn't that big of a deal, as you say people sweat and they don't die of exposure. The primary goal is to be warm. In the past, people spent all their time outdoors and fought wars without a trace of Gore-Tex or DWR. They wore wool underwear and cotton jackets. Now office workers think they need 3L Goretex for the scramble across the parking lot.
- secondcoming 2y ago
  Getting wet in the wilderness can be a huge deal, especially when you stop moving.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  I disagree- getting wet is a huge deal, and is why breathability is generally more important than absolute waterproofness, especially if you are doing hard physical work. People do die from exposure in the wilderness after getting soaked with sweat, and then stopping to rest. I just don't think gore-tex and DWR are the best solutions for staying warm and dry... there are lots of other options that are more durable and keep you drier in practice. Besides the non-synthetic stuff above, I also prefer Columbia Outdry, and polyurethane with large zippered vents over gore-tex/DWR. In the real world, the breathability of gore-tex just isn't enough to be useful, it's close to a plastic bag. But I agree that for your average urban person doing a quick walk in the rain from a parking lot- just getting the outside of a sweater damp is no big deal, and they probably don't even need to own an expensive rain shell.