3 ms·

So it's interesting. Everything you ask for here is something I, personally, as an independent wanna-get-my-hands-dirty nerd, would ask for too. I totally get

by nlh 2y ago

So it's interesting. Everything you ask for here is something I, personally, as an independent wanna-get-my-hands-dirty nerd, would ask for too. I totally get where you're coming from. But the thing is - the reason large companies often don't give folks like you and me these things is becuase there are proven reasons to do the contrary that actually end up making them more money. It sucks, but it's reality. 1. "Call us" pricing works because for big enterprise deals (4-7+ figures), there's often some serious negotiation involved and if you just show a sticker price up front, you risk a) scaring the buyer because the price is too high, b) losing the buyer because your competitor will just negotiate a better price than your listed price or b) leave yourself no room to negotiate if you really put your best price on the website. 2. Offering immediate free trials where you can jump in right away is the ideal world for nerds -- again, I love it personally. But software is often complex, and a guided demo/implementation is often the best path to make sure your buyers are actually successful. Otherwise you risk a lot of folks who sign up, jump in, have no idea what they're doing, and then abandon the trial immediately and go to a competitor who held their hand. 3. "Let me sign up right away and start using your product for $0..." If only offering Freemium were so simple. You will immediately have to deal with porn (it's always porn - and often kiddie porn. These people will figure out incredibly creative ways to use your SaaS product to host illegal content one way or another), spam, fraud, customer service issues, etc. There are many valid reasons to offer Freemium. There are many valid reasons not to do so. It's just not so simple. 4. Again, think about the flip side here. Lower friction to sign-ups without a card, but SO much hassle when it comes time to pay -- now you have to nag, bug, etc. to get payment, and then you have to delete accounts that are dormant. And you have much lower buying intent signals, etc. etc. etc. I wish the world of software catered to folks like us, but I fully and completely understand why it doesn't.

levocardia 2y ago
Indeed many of these "complaints" are explicitly designed to filter out high-maintenance, needy, and stingy customers, leaving you with the people who are more than happy to say "shut up and take my money."
ShakataGaNai 2y ago
> 1. "Call us" pricing works because for big enterprise deals (4-7+ figures), there's often some serious negotiation involved and if you just show a sticker price up front, you risk a) scaring the buyer because the price is too high, b) losing the buyer because your competitor will just negotiate a better price than your listed price or b) leave yourself no room to negotiate if you really put your best price on the website. I'd disagree and say this can go either way. As an enterprise buyer I know both MY budget and that all numbers are negotiable - to some extent. If you show me that this product costs $100k and my budget is $80k, I'll still talk to you. But if you list $100k and all I've got is $25k for the budget, yes, I'm going elsewhere. Now you might argue "We can make something work" I'm concerned. You'll do 80% off deal? Clearly you don't think your product is worth what you list so... now I don't think so either. And the "But We've got a tier for that" then list it. My time is way valuable to me. I do not want to go through 3 screening calls, a shit ton of hoops, and a 2 week wait... just to find out that your product is way too expensive for my budget. Especially when getting into those sales calls where the reps wanna play coy and say "Well whats your budget" or "Well it really depends, we want to get into a POC bla bla bla to understand your useless before providing a pricing". Ain't no one got time for that shit. Give me the MSRP up front (with the understanding that a deal may be reachable if it's a little much) or I'm walking. Keep in mind that when I'm pricing your product I'm probably pricing 3 to 5 others. There is literally not enough hours left in my life to give each and every vendor a 5 hours of time in order to get a price. Fortunately the world is shifting. You know who's pricing is available on their website? Salesforce. Okta. OneLogin. Ping. Slack. Github. Gitlab. AWS. Google. Microsoft (for some). Elastic. Tailscale. Adobe. Databricks. Datadog. Cloudflare. Zoom. ... The list goes on. In other words there are a lot of companies out there with their prices available on their website right this second. Sure, almost everyone of them has a "Enterprise call us for pricing" option and that's fine, as long as you've got something for me to start with. If you're a software vendor and don't have some prices to start with, you're at a major disadvantage. Because your competitors often do. And price is not the only thing buyers are looking for. If it was, Okta would have no business. You can look at their prices and OneLogin and Ping's (and Azure AD and Google). The entire IAM/SSO space has their prices right out front and Okta is... the most expensive. Yet somehow they all still are selling.
- 2y ago
eszed 2y ago
You're dead on with all of this. To add to your point, the worst and most regrettable software product my company uses would have been immediately exposed as non-viable had I been allowed to get my hands dirty and run a couple of test cases. As it was, the sales-person "yada-yada'd" my technical questions (more fool me, yes, but I didn't know enough about their internals - the primary cause of our discontent stems from a truly stupid database-design decision) and so I lacked the context to make an informed decision. (I'm more experienced and more suspicious now; I don't think I'd make the same mistake again.) You can add borderline-fraudulent sales practice and avoiding discovery of truly bad products to the list.
Friedduck 2y ago
What you say is true, but it’s because their pricing is deliberately complex and they’re performing yield maximization. I get that. However, it feels more like a new car negotiation that wastes everyone’s time. If you’re willing to accept X price at Y volume, just say that. If you offer discounts at certain tiers, provide those tiers. Mutual Fund companies do it, and successfully, even if you’re only signing a letter of intent and aren’t buying at the higher tier today. The charade involving salespeople, and let-me-talk-to-my-manager isn’t as productive as it seems. I’ve walked from several vendors (or discounted them in an RFP) due to that behavior.

by nlh 2y ago

levocardia 2y ago

Indeed many of these "complaints" are explicitly designed to filter out high-maintenance, needy, and stingy customers, leaving you with the people who are more than happy to say "shut up and take my money."

ShakataGaNai 2y ago

> 1. "Call us" pricing works because for big enterprise deals (4-7+ figures), there's often some serious negotiation involved and if you just show a sticker price up front, you risk a) scaring the buyer because the price is too high, b) losing the buyer because your competitor will just negotiate a better price than your listed price or b) leave yourself no room to negotiate if you really put your best price on the website. I'd disagree and say this can go either way. As an enterprise buyer I know both MY budget and that all numbers are negotiable - to some extent. If you show me that this product costs $100k and my budget is $80k, I'll still talk to you. But if you list $100k and all I've got is $25k for the budget, yes, I'm going elsewhere. Now you might argue "We can make something work" I'm concerned. You'll do 80% off deal? Clearly you don't think your product is worth what you list so... now I don't think so either. And the "But We've got a tier for that" then list it. My time is way valuable to me. I do not want to go through 3 screening calls, a shit ton of hoops, and a 2 week wait... just to find out that your product is way too expensive for my budget. Especially when getting into those sales calls where the reps wanna play coy and say "Well whats your budget" or "Well it really depends, we want to get into a POC bla bla bla to understand your useless before providing a pricing". Ain't no one got time for that shit. Give me the MSRP up front (with the understanding that a deal may be reachable if it's a little much) or I'm walking. Keep in mind that when I'm pricing your product I'm probably pricing 3 to 5 others. There is literally not enough hours left in my life to give each and every vendor a 5 hours of time in order to get a price. Fortunately the world is shifting. You know who's pricing is available on their website? Salesforce. Okta. OneLogin. Ping. Slack. Github. Gitlab. AWS. Google. Microsoft (for some). Elastic. Tailscale. Adobe. Databricks. Datadog. Cloudflare. Zoom. ... The list goes on. In other words there are a lot of companies out there with their prices available on their website right this second. Sure, almost everyone of them has a "Enterprise call us for pricing" option and that's fine, as long as you've got something for me to start with. If you're a software vendor and don't have some prices to start with, you're at a major disadvantage. Because your competitors often do. And price is not the only thing buyers are looking for. If it was, Okta would have no business. You can look at their prices and OneLogin and Ping's (and Azure AD and Google). The entire IAM/SSO space has their prices right out front and Okta is... the most expensive. Yet somehow they all still are selling.

2y ago

eszed 2y ago

You're dead on with all of this. To add to your point, the worst and most regrettable software product my company uses would have been immediately exposed as non-viable had I been allowed to get my hands dirty and run a couple of test cases. As it was, the sales-person "yada-yada'd" my technical questions (more fool me, yes, but I didn't know enough about their internals - the primary cause of our discontent stems from a truly stupid database-design decision) and so I lacked the context to make an informed decision. (I'm more experienced and more suspicious now; I don't think I'd make the same mistake again.) You can add borderline-fraudulent sales practice and avoiding discovery of truly bad products to the list.

Friedduck 2y ago

What you say is true, but it’s because their pricing is deliberately complex and they’re performing yield maximization. I get that. However, it feels more like a new car negotiation that wastes everyone’s time. If you’re willing to accept X price at Y volume, just say that. If you offer discounts at certain tiers, provide those tiers. Mutual Fund companies do it, and successfully, even if you’re only signing a letter of intent and aren’t buying at the higher tier today. The charade involving salespeople, and let-me-talk-to-my-manager isn’t as productive as it seems. I’ve walked from several vendors (or discounted them in an RFP) due to that behavior.