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I think we’re seeing market saturation at work. I suspect that most of the people that want, can afford, and are able to make an EV work for their needs alread

by _mlbt 2y ago

I think we’re seeing market saturation at work. I suspect that most of the people that want, can afford, and are able to make an EV work for their needs already own them. The truth is EVs are still more expensive than ICE vehicles, have significantly less range, and are a hard sell for rural America and anyone who doesn’t have the ability to charge at home.

SkyPuncher 2y ago
I so badly wanted an EV, but ultimately decided against it in part because of the range limitations. We live in a rural city. The next closest major cities are 2.5 to 3.5 hours drive away at highway speeds. Technically, several EVs could make this drive in ideal conditions, but it’d be stretching it. In the winter, we’d have to charge. Unfortunately, there only a single charger at the ideal range for us. Even the gap between the next two closest chargers is uncomfortably close to max range. We’d likely need to stop a total of 3 times to make these drives. THEN, we’d also need to drive an extra 20-30 minutes at our destination to top off for around town driving. It’s looking like PHEV are going to be the only practical option for the foreseeable future.
foxyv 2y ago
While I agree with just about everything you are saying, rural Americans definitely have the ability to charge their electric vehicles. In fact it's a huge selling point when the nearest gas station is 30 miles away. Even if you don't have access to grid power, solar charging at level 1 and 2 is still a thing. Now, if you don't have enough range to make it into town and there are no chargers? That's a huge deal.
- _mlbt 2y ago
  A lot of people truly underestimate the distance between towns in some rural areas of America. Another major issue is that rural areas are frequently subject to extended weather related power outages that can last days or even weeks.
  - kelipso 2y ago
    Plus you can just store a few gallons of gas at home for emergencies.
    - foxyv 2y ago
      Diesel is awesome. It doesn't go bad like gas does. This is part of why rural areas tend to have more Diesel implements and vehicles than urban areas. You can park a 1000 gallon tank of diesel and not worry about it turning into varnish. Although the concern about someone stealing it is still there... However, solar and battery backup is getting real popular as well. If you have a ton of land, for about $15000 you can provision a 6-kw system that will keep your freezers running without needing fuel deliveries. Also it's a lot easier to maintain than a backup generator that doesn't start when the town drunk hits the only pole servicing your area 20 miles away.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    This used to be the case, but suburbia is spreading almost everywhere now. I don't think you are ever more than 100 miles from a Walmart in most of the USA. Unless you are intentionally finding a remote location in Montana or Alaska... The distance in time can be pretty bad though if you are forced to do 35 on a dirt road for 50 of those miles.
tschwimmer 2y ago
I want an EV but I rent and my landlord won't bother to have a charger installed. I even have an existing 120v socket running next to where I park so it would be pretty trivial to install. But he pays for electricity (no separate meter) so he's disincentivized from doing so. Ultimately I would be the ideal user of an electric car - 99.99% of my trips are less than 200 miles. But I suspect that many people are held back by being renters and not having access to charging at home. Unless that problem gets fixed (and I strongly doubt it will; landlords that install chargers will probably mark electricity up 5-10x so that it's just slightly cheaper than gas) then electric car adoption among renters will be tepid at best.
- jfim 2y ago
  If there's already an outlet you can just use a level 1 charger. No need to install anything, they plug in a regular 120V outlet. They're pretty slow though, only adding a few miles per hour of charging, but if you're not driving much or can charge overnight then it could work.

by _mlbt 2y ago

SkyPuncher 2y ago

I so badly wanted an EV, but ultimately decided against it in part because of the range limitations. We live in a rural city. The next closest major cities are 2.5 to 3.5 hours drive away at highway speeds. Technically, several EVs could make this drive in ideal conditions, but it’d be stretching it. In the winter, we’d have to charge. Unfortunately, there only a single charger at the ideal range for us. Even the gap between the next two closest chargers is uncomfortably close to max range. We’d likely need to stop a total of 3 times to make these drives. THEN, we’d also need to drive an extra 20-30 minutes at our destination to top off for around town driving. It’s looking like PHEV are going to be the only practical option for the foreseeable future.

foxyv 2y ago

While I agree with just about everything you are saying, rural Americans definitely have the ability to charge their electric vehicles. In fact it's a huge selling point when the nearest gas station is 30 miles away. Even if you don't have access to grid power, solar charging at level 1 and 2 is still a thing. Now, if you don't have enough range to make it into town and there are no chargers? That's a huge deal.

_mlbt 2y ago
A lot of people truly underestimate the distance between towns in some rural areas of America. Another major issue is that rural areas are frequently subject to extended weather related power outages that can last days or even weeks.
- kelipso 2y ago
  Plus you can just store a few gallons of gas at home for emergencies.
  - foxyv 2y ago
    Diesel is awesome. It doesn't go bad like gas does. This is part of why rural areas tend to have more Diesel implements and vehicles than urban areas. You can park a 1000 gallon tank of diesel and not worry about it turning into varnish. Although the concern about someone stealing it is still there... However, solar and battery backup is getting real popular as well. If you have a ton of land, for about $15000 you can provision a 6-kw system that will keep your freezers running without needing fuel deliveries. Also it's a lot easier to maintain than a backup generator that doesn't start when the town drunk hits the only pole servicing your area 20 miles away.
- foxyv 2y ago
  This used to be the case, but suburbia is spreading almost everywhere now. I don't think you are ever more than 100 miles from a Walmart in most of the USA. Unless you are intentionally finding a remote location in Montana or Alaska... The distance in time can be pretty bad though if you are forced to do 35 on a dirt road for 50 of those miles.

tschwimmer 2y ago

I want an EV but I rent and my landlord won't bother to have a charger installed. I even have an existing 120v socket running next to where I park so it would be pretty trivial to install. But he pays for electricity (no separate meter) so he's disincentivized from doing so. Ultimately I would be the ideal user of an electric car - 99.99% of my trips are less than 200 miles. But I suspect that many people are held back by being renters and not having access to charging at home. Unless that problem gets fixed (and I strongly doubt it will; landlords that install chargers will probably mark electricity up 5-10x so that it's just slightly cheaper than gas) then electric car adoption among renters will be tepid at best.

jfim 2y ago
If there's already an outlet you can just use a level 1 charger. No need to install anything, they plug in a regular 120V outlet. They're pretty slow though, only adding a few miles per hour of charging, but if you're not driving much or can charge overnight then it could work.