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Every square cm is an exaggeration. Malaysia and Indonesia in my understanding accepted Islam largely through peaceful trading contacts. The Levant in particula

Every square cm is an exaggeration. Malaysia and Indonesia in my understanding accepted Islam largely through peaceful trading contacts. The Levant in particular, however, was conquered militarily and Arabized by a succession of Muslim conquests: Rashidun Caliphate (632–661) Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) Fatimid Caliphate (909–1171) Ayyubid Dynasty (1174–1260) Mamluk Sultanate (1250–1517) Ottoman Empire (1517–1918) Where there is overlap, they ruled different parts of the area. Personally, I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard.

selimthegrim 2y ago
There were local Palestinian magnates of sone authority in the 16th - 18th centuries CE
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  *some
racional 2y ago
I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard. The folks who first brought up this "prior indigenous claim" business were the early Zionists of course. The pre-1897 inhabitants didn't have to "claim" any special rights because they were already there (give or take some forced migration within the Ottoman empire), and not trying to expand into any new territory they hadn't been occupying in living memory -- and so had nothing to justify or explain. Anyway it's all moot because the earliest known inhabitants in the region were not Jews in any recognizable sense, but predominantly the Canaanites and other bronze age cultures. Whose presence predates any traces of the Israelite culture by 2000+ years. And who were likely the primary genetic reservoir for both Palestinians and Jews as they are currently known, via significant mixtures with other groups from outside the region. The whole idea of attempting to adjudicate anything happening on the ground today on the basis of any of this history (or our current conception of it) is completely vacuous of course. As is this bizarre Blut und Boden reference that you're trying to asign to the Palestinians, of all people.

selimthegrim 2y ago

There were local Palestinian magnates of sone authority in the 16th - 18th centuries CE

selimthegrim 2y ago
*some

racional 2y ago

I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard. The folks who first brought up this "prior indigenous claim" business were the early Zionists of course. The pre-1897 inhabitants didn't have to "claim" any special rights because they were already there (give or take some forced migration within the Ottoman empire), and not trying to expand into any new territory they hadn't been occupying in living memory -- and so had nothing to justify or explain. Anyway it's all moot because the earliest known inhabitants in the region were not Jews in any recognizable sense, but predominantly the Canaanites and other bronze age cultures. Whose presence predates any traces of the Israelite culture by 2000+ years. And who were likely the primary genetic reservoir for both Palestinians and Jews as they are currently known, via significant mixtures with other groups from outside the region. The whole idea of attempting to adjudicate anything happening on the ground today on the basis of any of this history (or our current conception of it) is completely vacuous of course. As is this bizarre Blut und Boden reference that you're trying to asign to the Palestinians, of all people.