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> “Pretty much everything,” said Misha Rykov, a research associate at the Mozilla Foundation, who worked on the car-privacy report. “Sex-life data, biometric da

> “Pretty much everything,” said Misha Rykov, a research associate at the Mozilla Foundation, who worked on the car-privacy report. “Sex-life data, biometric data, demographic, race, sexual orientation, gender — everything.” How are they collecting this data?

kube-system 3y ago
Some of that is in Nissan's privacy policy > https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/nissan/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/nissan/ The privacy policy reads like it is inclusive of all of their services, so I'm going to presume it's from ad tech or data broker type services that try to determine this information from correlated patterns. It might not be derived entirely from their cars.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > It might not be derived entirely from their cars I'm struggling to see how any of it could be derived from cars.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    One could derive a lot of it from GPS or message data alone. But the list sounds a lot like what you might get from a data broker, so I'm presuming that's where its actually coming from. But to directly answer your question, imagine you're data mining a car's infotainment and come across the following queries... you may be able to infer some things from these entries: "fertility clinic", "gay bar", "gentleman's club", "synagogue", "bankruptcy lawyer", "mobile home sales", etc.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
Sensors in the car + normal traffic pattern analysis based on where you go. The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint for a long time, and I have to imagine that has only improved. I remember a discussion about using these identity fingerprints to automatically adjust settings to the person sitting in a seat, but it was deemed too creepy at the time.
- justinclift 3y ago
  > The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint ... That sounds creepy as all hell, but it seems like it's definitely real. :( • https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-reveals-worlds-first-smart-fingerprint-technology-to-vehicles.html https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-... • https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21119162/fingerprint-recognition-for-the-car-use-cases-and-design-considerations https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/...
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > Sensors in the car + normal traffic pattern analysis based on where you go That seems quite different to what they're claiming in the article, though? Presumably many services (e.g. Google Maps) could have the same accusation levelled at them, and far more, because people don't use cars to go everywhere. > The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint for a long time, and I have to imagine that has only improved Do you mean if I get in a random car it can tell who I am, or if I get in the car it knows it's seen those fingerprints before and they're allowed to drive the car?
  - kube-system 3y ago
    > Do you mean if I get in a random car it can tell who I am, or if I get in the car it knows it's seen those fingerprints before and they're allowed to drive the car? Personalization for the driver(s). Other cars do it by having the settings tied to the key fob, or just by putting numbered buttons on the door.
randcraw 3y ago
There's a dark mirror industry in the US that curates this info and sells it widely. I stumbled across a rare sign of it when pulling up the history of a house I sold more than 20 years ago. It listed all prior owners WITH current residential address AND current cell phone numbers. In this case, the source of the info is a company called _Nuwber_. https://internetprivacy.com/what-is-nuwber-information/ https://internetprivacy.com/what-is-nuwber-information/
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  Understood, but the article is saying that the car can tell these things. Of course someone can tell - presumably Visa could do it. I'm wondering why cars in particular, and how they could do it.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    In the context of that sentence, the article says car companies collect that information. Here's the sentence in context: > Companies are quick to flaunt their privacy policies, but those amount to pages upon pages of legalese that leave even professionals stumped about what exactly car companies collect and where that information might go. > So what can they collect? > “Pretty much everything,” said Misha Rykov, a research associate at the Mozilla Foundation, who worked on the car-privacy report. “Sex-life data, biometric data, demographic, race, sexual orientation, gender — everything.”
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      Agreed, but "collect" implies "from the user", rather than "buy user data from aggregators".
      - kube-system 3y ago
        It's probably used that way in a lot of software privacy policies, because a lot of software directly collects information, but the word 'collect' itself doesn't imply any origin.

kube-system 3y ago

Some of that is in Nissan's privacy policy > https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/nissan/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/nissan/ The privacy policy reads like it is inclusive of all of their services, so I'm going to presume it's from ad tech or data broker type services that try to determine this information from correlated patterns. It might not be derived entirely from their cars.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> It might not be derived entirely from their cars I'm struggling to see how any of it could be derived from cars.
- kube-system 3y ago
  One could derive a lot of it from GPS or message data alone. But the list sounds a lot like what you might get from a data broker, so I'm presuming that's where its actually coming from. But to directly answer your question, imagine you're data mining a car's infotainment and come across the following queries... you may be able to infer some things from these entries: "fertility clinic", "gay bar", "gentleman's club", "synagogue", "bankruptcy lawyer", "mobile home sales", etc.

jandrewrogers 3y ago

Sensors in the car + normal traffic pattern analysis based on where you go. The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint for a long time, and I have to imagine that has only improved. I remember a discussion about using these identity fingerprints to automatically adjust settings to the person sitting in a seat, but it was deemed too creepy at the time.

justinclift 3y ago
> The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint ... That sounds creepy as all hell, but it seems like it's definitely real. :( • https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-reveals-worlds-first-smart-fingerprint-technology-to-vehicles.html https://www.hyundai.news/eu/articles/press-releases/hyundai-... • https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/21119162/fingerprint-recognition-for-the-car-use-cases-and-design-considerations https://www.electronicdesign.com/markets/automotive/article/...
robertlagrant 3y ago
> Sensors in the car + normal traffic pattern analysis based on where you go That seems quite different to what they're claiming in the article, though? Presumably many services (e.g. Google Maps) could have the same accusation levelled at them, and far more, because people don't use cars to go everywhere. > The sensors in the car have been capable of identifying a person by their fingerprint for a long time, and I have to imagine that has only improved Do you mean if I get in a random car it can tell who I am, or if I get in the car it knows it's seen those fingerprints before and they're allowed to drive the car?
- kube-system 3y ago
  > Do you mean if I get in a random car it can tell who I am, or if I get in the car it knows it's seen those fingerprints before and they're allowed to drive the car? Personalization for the driver(s). Other cars do it by having the settings tied to the key fob, or just by putting numbered buttons on the door.

randcraw 3y ago

There's a dark mirror industry in the US that curates this info and sells it widely. I stumbled across a rare sign of it when pulling up the history of a house I sold more than 20 years ago. It listed all prior owners WITH current residential address AND current cell phone numbers. In this case, the source of the info is a company called _Nuwber_. https://internetprivacy.com/what-is-nuwber-information/ https://internetprivacy.com/what-is-nuwber-information/

robertlagrant 3y ago
Understood, but the article is saying that the car can tell these things. Of course someone can tell - presumably Visa could do it. I'm wondering why cars in particular, and how they could do it.
- kube-system 3y ago
  In the context of that sentence, the article says car companies collect that information. Here's the sentence in context: > Companies are quick to flaunt their privacy policies, but those amount to pages upon pages of legalese that leave even professionals stumped about what exactly car companies collect and where that information might go. > So what can they collect? > “Pretty much everything,” said Misha Rykov, a research associate at the Mozilla Foundation, who worked on the car-privacy report. “Sex-life data, biometric data, demographic, race, sexual orientation, gender — everything.”
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Agreed, but "collect" implies "from the user", rather than "buy user data from aggregators".
    - kube-system 3y ago
      It's probably used that way in a lot of software privacy policies, because a lot of software directly collects information, but the word 'collect' itself doesn't imply any origin.