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I’d love to read an account of the ‘fall’ of Braun. Through my adult life, basically the only thing it makes that are still ubiquitous are electric shavers - wh
by jrmg 2y ago
I’d love to read an account of the ‘fall’ of Braun. Through my adult life, basically the only thing it makes that are still ubiquitous are electric shavers - which are great shavers, but hardly icons of design.
Was there internal drama that led to this contraction in the diversity of what they made? Did it happen fast or slow? I feel like there must be a good story in there.
- farslan 2y agoIf you're interested Dieter Rams itself goes into it a little bit in the "Rams" documentary. But it all happened after Gillette acquired Braun in the 1970's.
- moritz 2y agoSold to Gilette in 1967, expansion into many different areas after. Then, I guess their story is not really unique, they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers — increasing competition from Asian companies, so by the 1990s, Braun was dead. After Procter & Gamble bought them in 2005, it now mostly exists as a brand to be licensed (everything other than shaving and electric toothbrushes).
- Reason077 2y agoAnd now days the toothbrushes use the "Oral-B" brand, so Braun is only really known (in international markets) for shavers.
- shiroiushi 2y agoNo, the electric toothbrushes are called Braun in markets outside the US. I've only seen them labeled Oral-B in the US. Also, they're pretty lousy toothbrushes IMO. I recommend Panasonic ones instead.
- eru 2y ago> No, the electric toothbrushes are called Braun in markets outside the US. In some markets, maybe. In some other markets outside the US, they also use the Oral-B brand.
- shiroiushi 2y agoIn both Japan and Germany, I've seen them sold as "Braun".
- Reason077 2y agoWhen? Maybe 10-15 years ago?
- shiroiushi 2y agoGermany: probably 2 years ago. Japan: right now. I just looked on amazon.co.jp: https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%80%90Amazon-co-jp-%E9%99%90%E5%AE%9A%E3%80%91%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%83%B3-%E9%9B%BB%E5%8B%95%E6%AD%AF%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B7-PRO2000-D5015132WH/dp/B075SYQR72 https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%80%90Amazon-co-jp-%E9%99%90%E5%... It seems they have both names.
- Reason077 2y agoJapan is interesting. Maybe the Braun brand is still pretty strong over there. But in Europe and elsewhere you no longer see prominent "Braun" branding on the packaging - and it's been that way for a long time. You're right that the Braun logo co-branding still features on the devices themselves, though.
- jolt42 2y agoYeah, the battery in the Oral-B toothbrushes are awful, sonic care are much better
- shiroiushi 2y agoThat's not the problem I found. My problems were twofold: 1) The Braun toothbrushes are just nasty. No matter how much I rinsed them off after every use, they collected a bunch of nasty crap in the holder. My Panasonic toothbrush never does this. 2) The Braun toothbrushes only work on a single voltage, because their charger sucks. You cannot take the charger with you when you travel between continents. Any decent modern electronics these days don't have this problem. My Panasonic toothbrush's charger works with 100-240V, 50-60Hz power (worldwide), and this is a model that seems to only be sold in Japan. Also, the Braun toothbrush is huge. My Panasonic is much more compact.
- Reason077 2y ago> "No, the electric toothbrushes are called Braun in markets outside the US. I've only seen them labeled Oral-B in the US." I can assure you that now days they're Oral-B in most, if not all, markets globally. Certainly in the UK, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand they are no longer sold as "Braun", just "Oral-B". Here's the Oral-B store on amazon.de, for example: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/stores/Oral-BMarkenshop/page/4553F667-30F2-41FB-931B-ABF2FE437B78 https://www.amazon.de/-/en/stores/Oral-BMarkenshop/page/4553...
- gnabgib 2y agoTricky to confirm (no need to follow links), but the first hits on Amazon UK[0], Amazon AU[1], Amazon US[2] are clearly labelled Braun in the images. Amazon Germany[3] and Amazon France[4] too. [0]: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oral-B-Vitality-Toothbrush-Including-Sensitive/dp/B0B18V92KS https://www.amazon.co.uk/Oral-B-Vitality-Toothbrush-Includin... [1]: https://www.amazon.com.au/Oral-B-SMART-Electric-Rechargeable-Toothbrush/dp/B0794XD14M https://www.amazon.com.au/Oral-B-SMART-Electric-Rechargeable... [2]: https://www.amazon.com/Oral-B-1000-Rechargeable-Electric-Toothbrush/dp/B003UKM9CO https://www.amazon.com/Oral-B-1000-Rechargeable-Electric-Too... [3]: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vitality-Electric-Toothbrush-Cleaning-Designed/dp/B0B4SCYCLS https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vitality-Electric-Toothbrush-Clea... [4]: https://www.amazon.fr/Oral-B-Vitality-Action-Brosse-%C3%89lectrique/dp/B07DGMWKK9 https://www.amazon.fr/Oral-B-Vitality-Action-Brosse-%C3%89le...
- piltdownman 2y agoIn all English speaking European markets they're Oral-B. https://www.currys.ie/appliances/health-and-beauty/electric-toothbrushes/oral-b https://www.currys.ie/appliances/health-and-beauty/electric-... Not only that, but they're frequently the top position in the year-end 'best of' on both the legitimate consumer review sites and the more credible outlets https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-electric-toothbrush/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-electric-too... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/recommended/tech/best-electric-toothbrushes/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/recommended/tech/best-electric-t...
- gnabgib 2y agoMy toaster, kettle, coffee maker, emersion blender, hand mixer, shaver and toothbrush are all labelled Braun (the toothbrush also says Oral-B, but that co-labelling started in 1984[0]). That said, Proctor & Gamble makes finding Braun appliances in North America rather tricky (special order only, never on a store shelf). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral-B https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral-B
- gffrd 2y agoThey have good clocks, still. Not sure who manufactures them. They have a clock-specific website, braun-clocks.com, that shows P&G as the registrant.
- jjulius 2y agoCan confirm. I have the BC12 on my bedside table, I love it - simple, elegant, does exactly what I need it to do, no more, no less.
- currysausage 2y ago“Part of the Herald (Hong Kong) group of companies, Zeon Ltd is a leading manufacturer and distributor of clocks and watches, operating internationally in wholly owned offices in London and Hong Kong.”
- eru 2y ago> [...] they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers — increasing competition from Asian companies, so by the 1990s, Braun was dead. Miele and Bosch etc are still going strong. So I'm not sure what you mean by 'European household appliance manufacturers': they have faced the competition from Asian companies and survived.
- Reason077 2y ago> "Miele and Bosch etc are still going strong." Not to mention Phillips, Electrolux (still the world's 2nd largest appliance manufacturer after Whirlpool!), and relative newcomers like Dyson.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nehal3m 2y agoPhilips is not exactly a European household appliance manufacturer, they've sold off most of that and moved into health tech.
- fransje26 2y ago> they've sold off most of that and moved into health tech. ..and are knowingly selling, among other things, highly defective CPAP devices.
- Rinzler89 2y agoNah bruh. Philips and Electrolux are mostly just name brands today that license their badges to be placed on goods from OEM Chinese or Turkish appliance makers.
- Reason077 2y agoElectrolux doesn't license out their brand names to anyone, AFAIK. They do operate manufacturing facilities in 16 countries, and 2 of their 3 largest factories are in Europe: Vallenoncello, Italy and Ljungby, Sweden (the third is in Rayong, Thailand - not China!) With Phillips its more complicated because they've spun off many of their divisions into separate companies, such as the lighting division into Signify NV. So Signify now makes the Phillips Hue lighting products under license. But it's not like they're licensing the brand out to random companies - they're companies that were previously part of Phillips itself.
- DeathArrow 2y ago> they shared the fate of all European household appliance manufacturers Not only household appliance manufacturers but also electronics, mobile phones and whatnot. Philips, Grundig, AEG, Nokia, Bosch are just memories.
- jrmg 2y agoBosch is still going strong - I know them as making mid/high end kitchen appliances and power tools. Philips still around too, though not the recognizable company it once was (might be doing better financially though?…)
- ghaff 2y agoPretty much what happened more broadly. Brands got sold off to companies making goods in Asia for lower prices. Consumers mostly not willing to pay 2x to 3xand it’s often not even clear if the higher prices are worth the premium.
- imp0cat 2y agoThis. I don't mind paying more, but it must be worth it.
- makeitdouble 2y agoAt this point it not even for lower prices. I'm into coffee, and Timemore products are cleaner and overall better at what I want than from european or US brands. Same went for MUJI, who were never really cheap outside of Japan (and were just middle priced even domestically) but kept a foothold thanks to better and cleaner design. Increasingly Xiaomi's household products are also coming into that niche. Still daily using their driver set after 5 years.
- maxglute 2y ago>Xiaomi's household products are also coming into that niche. IMO Xiaomi, more than Apple carries on Braun legacy. Relatively well designed, performant, and accessible (cheap) consumer goods. No one else is even trying to build out an ecosystem like Xiaomi with underlying design language. Muji has some nice kitchen stuff/home appliances in Asian market, but they're expanding their portfolio very conservatively. Bonus for designing a Muji house filled with Muji goods. Wish I can order that from a Sears Catalogue.
- throwaway290 2y agoOnce I rented a place with a pretty Xiaomi kettle and I'll never forget how I small ants came out from around the round button in the middle of the lid when I turned it on first time. I can't say "well designed" if it is just spamming plastic. In this case design or manufacturing defect ended up with big enough gaps in the plastic for insects to enter and all that space under plastic that is impossible to clean. It's a kitchen appliance after all. The lid button by the way is super inconvenient. You can't just pick up the kettle with a single hand and open lid while you are heading to fill it up. But sure it looks good to some I guess compared to more useful button on the handle a usual kettle has Never saw any other Xioami kettles since or before. Saw other products though. Didn't notice some sort of consistent design language. Aside from plastic being mostly white maybe? But even that not always true. I also thought its sensor is faulty because it keeps boiling water for more than 1 minute though maybe that's intentional? Bit later it seemed like metal inside was rusting. But that's more manufacturing than design.