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Hate this. I'm presently torn between the desire to get an EV and dreading the inevitable tech quagmire I'll be wading into as a result. My car is 23 years old

Hate this. I'm presently torn between the desire to get an EV and dreading the inevitable tech quagmire I'll be wading into as a result. My car is 23 years old but will hopefully last long enough that the pendulum swings back towards simplicity and accessibility, even if that costs more money. I forgot, I asked for this already, no luck so far: https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/29/please-make-a-dumb-car/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/01/29/please-make-a-dumb-car/

Faaak 2y ago
2016 hyundai ioniq here. (subjectively the best car ever.) Hopefully I got it just before "connected cars" were mainstream. Hopefully that changes someday :(
BlackjackCF 2y ago
I would LOVE to have an EV that’s a “dumb car”. I have no interest on my car providing me all of the extra bells and whistles that I already get from my phone. What kills me too is the giant screen with smart features on these cars is extremely unreliable. The GPS/LTE frequently disconnects. The apps randomly crash or are very slow. I’d much rather just use my phone with Bluetooth for any of these features.
- nicbou 2y ago
  I'd be happy with a single 3.5mm jack and a volume knob.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    For all the fancy aspects of CarPlay or whatever the Android version is, what most people really want is a phone mount that charges and can play music. CarPlay is miles better than most any in-car "infotainment" crap, but all of it is basically not needed.
    - idontwantthis 2y ago
      I just want a “big buttons” mode on my phone with the 4 apps that I might need while driving taking up the whole screen.
      - bombcar 2y ago
        There might be something in Accessibility that could work; unfortunately phones are so strongly built around "one user" that it would be hard to turn on and off.
      - snypher 2y ago
        I liked Android Auto for this
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      no, what I want from my car display is Google Maps. Music control is a bonus, but my CD player works fine. My very old OEM maps with no traffic insights are the only thing that pain me when I get into my older car after driving a newer one. I don't want a phone mount, where my phone can fall off. I don't want the rest of the apps available, either. I don't need a DuoLingo practice reminder while I'm driving, get it?
    - tiltowait 2y ago
      I dunno, plugging my phone in and having it automatically pop up a suggested route for getting home, that avoids the traffic jam on the freeway I was unwittingly planning on taking, is pretty sweet.
- ortusdux 2y ago
  Is there a consumer advocacy group or the like that could please formalize and oversee a "Dumb" certification? I would love to buy a certified Dumb TV.
- ekanes 2y ago
  Do you think the retrofit gas-to-EV conversions will help, as options there expand and improve?
- rsolva 2y ago
  I bought an WV eUP! (2014) this winter and it is basically a "regular" car with normal physical buttons + a small Garmin GPS. It's nothing like new cars, electric or not, with big screens and almost no buttons, and a bunch of privacy violating sensors and telemetry tech built in. It does have a 2G GSM and a GPS antenna, but the 2G network is soon turned off here in Norway. And it's hacakble! You can buy an open source replacement for the remote control of charging and climate control! I love this car and I'm not tempted at all by Tesla and the like, they are a privacy nightmare.
  - teknico 2y ago
    I have one too, nice little car. Unfortunately Volkswagen stopped making them, and the new ID line embodies many negatives of new cars. Any details about the open source replacement for controls?
    - rsolva 2y ago
      They stopped production, but due to popular demand, they have started it back up! [1] The open source remote control system is called OVMS [2]. I have not got around to order and install it yet, but my ambition is to get it done this summer. They have detailed instructions on their site [3]. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/568463/volkswagen-eup-available-order-again/ https://insideevs.com/news/568463/volkswagen-eup-available-o... [2] https://www.openvehicles.com/ https://www.openvehicles.com/ [3] https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_vweup/docs/index.html https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_v...
- Tanoc 2y ago
  If you like the styling of an older car there are plenty of conversion kits for a variety of torque/kilowatt outputs, sans batteries. Ford already sells factory kits, wiring harness and all. The downside is you're taking care of the fragile minutia of an older car, such as combating shock tower mount rust or the plastic gearing of the window mechanism. I'd still happily put up with 3D printing or machining a small, broken, long out of stock part than put up with all the forced technological integration of modern market EVs, though.
bee_rider 2y ago
I guess there’s ever a huge market for any sort of aftermarket thing, but a mid 90’s small truck with an electric mod and a raspberry pi powered Linux touchscreen for the entertainment system would be much more interesting to me than any vehicle currently being sold.
- bombcar 2y ago
  There are people making conversions - but the prices are high enough that either you need to do most of it yourself, or you just buy a modern EV - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyHM_5q31U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyHM_5q31U They can range from as simple as a Tesla with a different body to as complex as combining batteries and motors from various donors with custom controllers, etc.
thfuran 2y ago
>but will hopefully last long enough that the pendulum swings back towards simplicity and accessibility I'm not at all convinced that the pendulum exists. I think we fell down a greasy slope.
turtlebits 2y ago
The Chevy Bolt is about as dumb as you're going to find. Manual controls for most HVAC and radio functions. AUX-in jack. Used models are cheap.
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  Used ones are back down to about $16k. Over 6 years that's around $10/day for wheels.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  Don't buy GM and expect privacy.[1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/technology/general-motors-spying-driver-data-consent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/technology/general-motors...
rldjbpin 2y ago
it is ironic that while mechanically EVs are much simpler, they are only shipped with all the complexity from electronic side. i am not an automobile engg, but the core parts required to run an EV (motor control, battery management, etc.) has to be comparable to the ECU that are in decades-old Hondas and Toyotas.

Faaak 2y ago

2016 hyundai ioniq here. (subjectively the best car ever.) Hopefully I got it just before "connected cars" were mainstream. Hopefully that changes someday :(

BlackjackCF 2y ago

I would LOVE to have an EV that’s a “dumb car”. I have no interest on my car providing me all of the extra bells and whistles that I already get from my phone. What kills me too is the giant screen with smart features on these cars is extremely unreliable. The GPS/LTE frequently disconnects. The apps randomly crash or are very slow. I’d much rather just use my phone with Bluetooth for any of these features.

nicbou 2y ago
I'd be happy with a single 3.5mm jack and a volume knob.
- bombcar 2y ago
  For all the fancy aspects of CarPlay or whatever the Android version is, what most people really want is a phone mount that charges and can play music. CarPlay is miles better than most any in-car "infotainment" crap, but all of it is basically not needed.
  - idontwantthis 2y ago
    I just want a “big buttons” mode on my phone with the 4 apps that I might need while driving taking up the whole screen.
    - bombcar 2y ago
      There might be something in Accessibility that could work; unfortunately phones are so strongly built around "one user" that it would be hard to turn on and off.
    - snypher 2y ago
      I liked Android Auto for this
  - dingnuts 2y ago
    no, what I want from my car display is Google Maps. Music control is a bonus, but my CD player works fine. My very old OEM maps with no traffic insights are the only thing that pain me when I get into my older car after driving a newer one. I don't want a phone mount, where my phone can fall off. I don't want the rest of the apps available, either. I don't need a DuoLingo practice reminder while I'm driving, get it?
  - tiltowait 2y ago
    I dunno, plugging my phone in and having it automatically pop up a suggested route for getting home, that avoids the traffic jam on the freeway I was unwittingly planning on taking, is pretty sweet.
ortusdux 2y ago
Is there a consumer advocacy group or the like that could please formalize and oversee a "Dumb" certification? I would love to buy a certified Dumb TV.
ekanes 2y ago
Do you think the retrofit gas-to-EV conversions will help, as options there expand and improve?
rsolva 2y ago
I bought an WV eUP! (2014) this winter and it is basically a "regular" car with normal physical buttons + a small Garmin GPS. It's nothing like new cars, electric or not, with big screens and almost no buttons, and a bunch of privacy violating sensors and telemetry tech built in. It does have a 2G GSM and a GPS antenna, but the 2G network is soon turned off here in Norway. And it's hacakble! You can buy an open source replacement for the remote control of charging and climate control! I love this car and I'm not tempted at all by Tesla and the like, they are a privacy nightmare.
- teknico 2y ago
  I have one too, nice little car. Unfortunately Volkswagen stopped making them, and the new ID line embodies many negatives of new cars. Any details about the open source replacement for controls?
  - rsolva 2y ago
    They stopped production, but due to popular demand, they have started it back up! [1] The open source remote control system is called OVMS [2]. I have not got around to order and install it yet, but my ambition is to get it done this summer. They have detailed instructions on their site [3]. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/568463/volkswagen-eup-available-order-again/ https://insideevs.com/news/568463/volkswagen-eup-available-o... [2] https://www.openvehicles.com/ https://www.openvehicles.com/ [3] https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_vweup/docs/index.html https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_v...
Tanoc 2y ago
If you like the styling of an older car there are plenty of conversion kits for a variety of torque/kilowatt outputs, sans batteries. Ford already sells factory kits, wiring harness and all. The downside is you're taking care of the fragile minutia of an older car, such as combating shock tower mount rust or the plastic gearing of the window mechanism. I'd still happily put up with 3D printing or machining a small, broken, long out of stock part than put up with all the forced technological integration of modern market EVs, though.

bee_rider 2y ago

I guess there’s ever a huge market for any sort of aftermarket thing, but a mid 90’s small truck with an electric mod and a raspberry pi powered Linux touchscreen for the entertainment system would be much more interesting to me than any vehicle currently being sold.

bombcar 2y ago
There are people making conversions - but the prices are high enough that either you need to do most of it yourself, or you just buy a modern EV - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyHM_5q31U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyHM_5q31U They can range from as simple as a Tesla with a different body to as complex as combining batteries and motors from various donors with custom controllers, etc.

thfuran 2y ago

>but will hopefully last long enough that the pendulum swings back towards simplicity and accessibility I'm not at all convinced that the pendulum exists. I think we fell down a greasy slope.

turtlebits 2y ago

The Chevy Bolt is about as dumb as you're going to find. Manual controls for most HVAC and radio functions. AUX-in jack. Used models are cheap.

Gibbon1 2y ago
Used ones are back down to about $16k. Over 6 years that's around $10/day for wheels.
pseudalopex 2y ago
Don't buy GM and expect privacy.[1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/technology/general-motors-spying-driver-data-consent.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/23/technology/general-motors...

rldjbpin 2y ago

it is ironic that while mechanically EVs are much simpler, they are only shipped with all the complexity from electronic side. i am not an automobile engg, but the core parts required to run an EV (motor control, battery management, etc.) has to be comparable to the ECU that are in decades-old Hondas and Toyotas.