4 ms·

I agree that pedestrians shouldn't shoulder risk, within reason. But by my interpretation of the article the author derides city planners for perceived incompe

I agree that pedestrians shouldn't shoulder risk, within reason. But by my interpretation of the article the author derides city planners for perceived incompetence/prioritization of motorist safety, without considering any nuance.

wonder_er 2y ago
I do desired them for their _objective_ incompetence. Among serious traffic people, globally, american traffic planners are regarded as children in a corner eating play dough. I have plenty of nuance, here you go: - https://zoningverydifferentthanours.substack.com https://zoningverydifferentthanours.substack.com - https://josh.works/issues-in-golden https://josh.works/issues-in-golden - https://josh.works/parking-in-golden https://josh.works/parking-in-golden - https://josh.works/about-roundabouts https://josh.works/about-roundabouts I could go on. Do you want to start with Donald Shoup's [The High Cost of Free Parking](https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Parking-Updated-Edition/dp/193236496X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1332084228&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=markeurban-20&linkId=65aeac5942c99b794876bb2d2dc32bb0 https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Parking-Updated-Edition/dp/...) or my friend Alain Bertraud's beautiful book about urban _economics_ as the right frame of analysis for managing shared city resources: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39644188-order-without-design https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39644188-order-without-d... There's a deep and intimate relationship between american zoning laws, american mobility regimes, and the american ethnic cleansing of all non-whites: https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan Tell me more about my lack of nuance. You might be right, fwiw, but it might kinda be the point. I'm not interested in a message of "your opposition of ethnic cleansing is _insufficiently nuanced_.", though it is slightly humorous.
- flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago
  Thanks, the extra context is helpful, though if anything it contradicts the assertion that American traffic planners are personally incompetent and the cause of the unsafe conditions for pedestrians (given that they're set up to fail) Golden might be an exception though, I do remember seeing a lot of egregious issues back when I lived there. To continue your analogy, without additional context your message, at least to my reading, devolved a bit into "just stop killing people, easy!" as a solution to ethnic cleansing.
  - emodendroket 2y ago
    Well what is the “solution” to ethnic cleansing if not for the perpetrators to desist (or perhaps be made to desist) from doing it? What a bizarre analogy.
emodendroket 2y ago
What nuance do you wish him to acknowledge? It seems to me like he's foundationally attacking the entire way the discipline is practiced, which is hard to do in a way that sounds polite, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong.
- wonder_er 2y ago
  author here. Thanks for the gracious words. Yes, I'm foundationally attacking the entire way the discipline is practiced, I'm not _trying_ to do it politely, _and_ the critiques are possibly fairly leveled. :)

wonder_er 2y ago

I do desired them for their _objective_ incompetence. Among serious traffic people, globally, american traffic planners are regarded as children in a corner eating play dough. I have plenty of nuance, here you go: - https://zoningverydifferentthanours.substack.com https://zoningverydifferentthanours.substack.com - https://josh.works/issues-in-golden https://josh.works/issues-in-golden - https://josh.works/parking-in-golden https://josh.works/parking-in-golden - https://josh.works/about-roundabouts https://josh.works/about-roundabouts I could go on. Do you want to start with Donald Shoup's [The High Cost of Free Parking](https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Parking-Updated-Edition/dp/193236496X/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1332084228&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=markeurban-20&linkId=65aeac5942c99b794876bb2d2dc32bb0 https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Parking-Updated-Edition/dp/...) or my friend Alain Bertraud's beautiful book about urban _economics_ as the right frame of analysis for managing shared city resources: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39644188-order-without-design https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39644188-order-without-d... There's a deep and intimate relationship between american zoning laws, american mobility regimes, and the american ethnic cleansing of all non-whites: https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan https://josh.works/full-copy-of-1922-atlanta-zone-plan Tell me more about my lack of nuance. You might be right, fwiw, but it might kinda be the point. I'm not interested in a message of "your opposition of ethnic cleansing is _insufficiently nuanced_.", though it is slightly humorous.

flaminHotSpeedo 2y ago
Thanks, the extra context is helpful, though if anything it contradicts the assertion that American traffic planners are personally incompetent and the cause of the unsafe conditions for pedestrians (given that they're set up to fail) Golden might be an exception though, I do remember seeing a lot of egregious issues back when I lived there. To continue your analogy, without additional context your message, at least to my reading, devolved a bit into "just stop killing people, easy!" as a solution to ethnic cleansing.
- emodendroket 2y ago
  Well what is the “solution” to ethnic cleansing if not for the perpetrators to desist (or perhaps be made to desist) from doing it? What a bizarre analogy.

emodendroket 2y ago

What nuance do you wish him to acknowledge? It seems to me like he's foundationally attacking the entire way the discipline is practiced, which is hard to do in a way that sounds polite, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong.

wonder_er 2y ago
author here. Thanks for the gracious words. Yes, I'm foundationally attacking the entire way the discipline is practiced, I'm not _trying_ to do it politely, _and_ the critiques are possibly fairly leveled. :)