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SEC is a joke. Either nothing will happen at all OR they will get hit with a small fine.

by edm0nd 2y ago

j0hnyl 2y ago
Nothing should happen. Treating crypto tokens as securities is absurd.
- Timber-6539 2y ago
  Crypto tokens fall into the definition of securities by SEC standards.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    Maybe the way to view it would be as a gambling product, with the regulation that casinos encounter. Though I'm guessing most crypto users wouldn't enjoy that.
  - smeej 2y ago
    As the ongoing court case with Coinbase shows, though, part of the problem is that the SEC might not be using reasonable standards. It's letting the pitcher call the balls and strikes.
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      The only reasonable standard the crypto true believers would accept from the US government is that cryptocurrency tokens and derivatives are 100% unregulated and nontaxable by any current or future statute.
      - smeej 2y ago
        That's a nice ad hominem attack you've made there, but it isn't actually unreasonable to argue that Bitcoin and certain other currencies like it are not securities. Heck, even the SEC has said as much. It's even more reasonable to argue that things like NFTs are more like digital baseball cards than securities.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > it isn't actually unreasonable to argue that Bitcoin and certain other currencies like it are not securities It’s not. But it’s clear the industry needs supervision, and it isn’t really worth the time drafting federal legislation. The SEC keeping the most egregious behaviour checked, e.g. policing positioning with retail investors, is the best worst option for now.
        smeej 2y ago
        The CFTC seems to think it would be perfectly competent to handle the situation too. I don't think the only options are federal legislation or the (allegedly) overreaching SEC.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > CFTC seems to think it would be perfectly competent to handle the situation too The way these businesses are run, it probably does too. A good amount of effort in finance goes into avoiding unneeded regulatory duplication. But if you’re a you’re a bank you get both the FDIC and SEC, a public drug manufacturer the SEC and FDA; if you’re selling crypto through your brokerage app, the SEC and CFTC.
        smeej 2y ago
        Perhaps at the level of exchanges, sure, but for each individual token, it can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time, and the CFTC and SEC keep stepping on each other's toes.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > it can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time Why not? Mixed swaps are dual regulated, for instance [1]. [1] https://katten.com/CFTC-SEC-Finalize-Swap-Product-Definitions https://katten.com/CFTC-SEC-Finalize-Swap-Product-Definition...
        2y ago
      - FabHK 2y ago
        While an actually reasonable standard would be to extend the law as to summarily prohibit all permissionless cryptocurrencies, thus ending the debate.

SEC is a joke. Either nothing will happen at all OR they will get hit with a small fine.

by edm0nd 2y ago

SEC is a joke. Either nothing will happen at all OR they will get hit with a small fine.

j0hnyl 2y ago

Nothing should happen. Treating crypto tokens as securities is absurd.

Timber-6539 2y ago
Crypto tokens fall into the definition of securities by SEC standards.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  Maybe the way to view it would be as a gambling product, with the regulation that casinos encounter. Though I'm guessing most crypto users wouldn't enjoy that.
- smeej 2y ago
  As the ongoing court case with Coinbase shows, though, part of the problem is that the SEC might not be using reasonable standards. It's letting the pitcher call the balls and strikes.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    The only reasonable standard the crypto true believers would accept from the US government is that cryptocurrency tokens and derivatives are 100% unregulated and nontaxable by any current or future statute.
    - smeej 2y ago
      That's a nice ad hominem attack you've made there, but it isn't actually unreasonable to argue that Bitcoin and certain other currencies like it are not securities. Heck, even the SEC has said as much. It's even more reasonable to argue that things like NFTs are more like digital baseball cards than securities.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > it isn't actually unreasonable to argue that Bitcoin and certain other currencies like it are not securities It’s not. But it’s clear the industry needs supervision, and it isn’t really worth the time drafting federal legislation. The SEC keeping the most egregious behaviour checked, e.g. policing positioning with retail investors, is the best worst option for now.
        smeej 2y ago
        The CFTC seems to think it would be perfectly competent to handle the situation too. I don't think the only options are federal legislation or the (allegedly) overreaching SEC.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > CFTC seems to think it would be perfectly competent to handle the situation too The way these businesses are run, it probably does too. A good amount of effort in finance goes into avoiding unneeded regulatory duplication. But if you’re a you’re a bank you get both the FDIC and SEC, a public drug manufacturer the SEC and FDA; if you’re selling crypto through your brokerage app, the SEC and CFTC.
        smeej 2y ago
        Perhaps at the level of exchanges, sure, but for each individual token, it can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time, and the CFTC and SEC keep stepping on each other's toes.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > it can't be both a commodity and a security at the same time Why not? Mixed swaps are dual regulated, for instance [1]. [1] https://katten.com/CFTC-SEC-Finalize-Swap-Product-Definitions https://katten.com/CFTC-SEC-Finalize-Swap-Product-Definition...
        2y ago
    - FabHK 2y ago
      While an actually reasonable standard would be to extend the law as to summarily prohibit all permissionless cryptocurrencies, thus ending the debate.