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Essential part of my home studio audio stack (Serato / Ableton / OBS / BlackHole / Aggregate/Multi-output devices in Audio MIDI setup). Agree with others in th

Essential part of my home studio audio stack (Serato / Ableton / OBS / BlackHole / Aggregate/Multi-output devices in Audio MIDI setup). Agree with others in this post that it's WAY too hard to get a stable stack on OSX and that a tool like BlackHole should be standard in the OS.

TylerE 2y ago
If you think the situation is bad on Mac, you e never had to fight with ASIO on Windows. On Mac stuff basically just works. On Windows ASIO works with only ASIO, and doesn’t allow the OS to use the card for “regular” sound unless the device-specific driver allows for it. Edit: Or in most cases for two ASIO applications to use the same soundcard at the same time. So you end up needing to install a virtual loopback anyway, losing out on the (theoretical) latency benefits of ASIO.
- com2kid 2y ago
  It is unfortunate, the old windows media stack had a nice drag and drop UI that let you connect different inputs and sinks together in all sorts of weird and cool ways. Back when I used Windows 2000 I was able plug a game console into a capture card and split the audio and video inputs so they both went out over streaming video and were visible/audible on my local machine. Not that anyone cared about watching live streamed video game footage back in 2001 or so.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    The problem with the old apis (and this includes directsound) is that they are incapable of stabling running at low latency, which is crucial for recording.
duped 2y ago
> WAY too hard to get a stable stack on OSX compared to what?
- jxramos 2y ago
  for me Windows is the king in backwards compatibility. I get the sense they expend significant resources doing testing in this space and scrutinizing ABIs and APIs and all that. They don't want to disturb the developer ecosystems with bedrock changes.
  - philistine 2y ago
    Well, I'm sorry to report we've had the first breach in that policy in ... well forever! https://www.theverge.com/24148033/satya-nadella-microsoft-security-memo https://www.theverge.com/24148033/satya-nadella-microsoft-se...
    - jxramos 2y ago
      ah what a conundrum, pitting legacy over security that's a big tradeoff decision. Those mostly seems like independent topics but I wonder if the deeper you go in maximizing legacy support the more vulnerable you make your systems in falling for security lapses of some kind. I wonder if these two things tangle in unforeseen ways deep beneath the surface.
  - duped 2y ago
    Not for audio. Do you use DirectSound, ASIO, WASAPI? On MacOS there is CoreAudio, and it's been there for two decades.
    - atoav 2y ago
      Yeah, but with each MacOS Update your expensive hardware might become as useful as a brick. I have a audiointerface from 2002 that I can plug into my windows machine and it runs. The same interface worked on Mac, once.
      - jxramos 2y ago
        Definitely, MacOS busts kext extensions and other software without mercy leaving the devs to either keep up or to bite the bullet and abandon ship. For projects that are labors of love those often fall to the wayside and you get stuck romanticizing earlier versions of MacOS when you used to be able to do xyz. One I’ve been longing for is a rerelease of https://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/ https://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/
ErneX 2y ago
Nitpick: it’s macOS since 2016 :)
timc3 2y ago
Ditch the Aggregate devices for a start ( yes it’s expensive running a lot of inputs or outputs on a proper system, and you don’t take advantage of all the interfaces built into gear). Uninstall Blackhole and spend the money on Rogue Amoeba stuff. Buy audio interfaces with good drivers (e.g. RME, Lynx, Metric Halo or even MOTU AVB stuff and stay away from Antelope - they have problems), install, plugin and away you go.
- processunknown 2y ago
  Seconded. Rouge Amoeba has great tools
- djtriptych 2y ago
  Thanks - will definitely look at upgrading this part of the chain. It's been a headache.

TylerE 2y ago

If you think the situation is bad on Mac, you e never had to fight with ASIO on Windows. On Mac stuff basically just works. On Windows ASIO works with only ASIO, and doesn’t allow the OS to use the card for “regular” sound unless the device-specific driver allows for it. Edit: Or in most cases for two ASIO applications to use the same soundcard at the same time. So you end up needing to install a virtual loopback anyway, losing out on the (theoretical) latency benefits of ASIO.

com2kid 2y ago
It is unfortunate, the old windows media stack had a nice drag and drop UI that let you connect different inputs and sinks together in all sorts of weird and cool ways. Back when I used Windows 2000 I was able plug a game console into a capture card and split the audio and video inputs so they both went out over streaming video and were visible/audible on my local machine. Not that anyone cared about watching live streamed video game footage back in 2001 or so.
- TylerE 2y ago
  The problem with the old apis (and this includes directsound) is that they are incapable of stabling running at low latency, which is crucial for recording.

duped 2y ago

> WAY too hard to get a stable stack on OSX compared to what?

jxramos 2y ago
for me Windows is the king in backwards compatibility. I get the sense they expend significant resources doing testing in this space and scrutinizing ABIs and APIs and all that. They don't want to disturb the developer ecosystems with bedrock changes.
- philistine 2y ago
  Well, I'm sorry to report we've had the first breach in that policy in ... well forever! https://www.theverge.com/24148033/satya-nadella-microsoft-security-memo https://www.theverge.com/24148033/satya-nadella-microsoft-se...
  - jxramos 2y ago
    ah what a conundrum, pitting legacy over security that's a big tradeoff decision. Those mostly seems like independent topics but I wonder if the deeper you go in maximizing legacy support the more vulnerable you make your systems in falling for security lapses of some kind. I wonder if these two things tangle in unforeseen ways deep beneath the surface.
- duped 2y ago
  Not for audio. Do you use DirectSound, ASIO, WASAPI? On MacOS there is CoreAudio, and it's been there for two decades.
  - atoav 2y ago
    Yeah, but with each MacOS Update your expensive hardware might become as useful as a brick. I have a audiointerface from 2002 that I can plug into my windows machine and it runs. The same interface worked on Mac, once.
    - jxramos 2y ago
      Definitely, MacOS busts kext extensions and other software without mercy leaving the devs to either keep up or to bite the bullet and abandon ship. For projects that are labors of love those often fall to the wayside and you get stuck romanticizing earlier versions of MacOS when you used to be able to do xyz. One I’ve been longing for is a rerelease of https://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/ https://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/

ErneX 2y ago

Nitpick: it’s macOS since 2016 :)

timc3 2y ago

Ditch the Aggregate devices for a start ( yes it’s expensive running a lot of inputs or outputs on a proper system, and you don’t take advantage of all the interfaces built into gear). Uninstall Blackhole and spend the money on Rogue Amoeba stuff. Buy audio interfaces with good drivers (e.g. RME, Lynx, Metric Halo or even MOTU AVB stuff and stay away from Antelope - they have problems), install, plugin and away you go.

processunknown 2y ago
Seconded. Rouge Amoeba has great tools
djtriptych 2y ago
Thanks - will definitely look at upgrading this part of the chain. It's been a headache.