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I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health be

I don’t see the problem with being addicted to pure nicotine. It’s completely safe, causes next to no health issues, is not carcinogenic, actually has health benefits for acuity and long term memory. Addiction in itself is not a bad thing.

oyashirochama 3y ago
Nicotine DOES cause health issues, most of them are extreme versions of caffeine, and due to the severity should be controlled a little similar to alcohol.
- dyauspitr 3y ago
  What are they. I’ve done a lot of research and the most I could find is a slightly increased cardiovascular risk. It has been a few years since I looked into it so maybe there is new research I’m missing. Maybe you’re referring to a nicotine overdose which is a separate discussion.
39896880 3y ago
I think you mean “dependency” and not “addiction.” Addiction is by definition a bad thing: “Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behaviour that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences.” You’re right about nicotine though. It’s the delivery that’s the problem, in addition to the addictive properties which make the harm of the delivery less salient. Emphasis mine. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction?wprov=sfti1#
- dyauspitr 3y ago
  That’s my point. A nicotine addiction does not satisfy the “despite substantial harm and other negative consequences” corollary. Using a high quality vape pen and unflavored vegetable glycerine as the base, the delivery issue is somewhat resolved.
- joquarky 3y ago
  Anyone else remember when "internet addiction" was a thing?
dogman144 3y ago
Have you had said addiction, and if so have you tried to quit it?
- dyauspitr 3y ago
  I do have the addiction and I have quit before but it’s really hard. That was when I smoked cigarettes and needed to quit because I was severely harming my body. I now vape with a 100% vegetable glycerin and nicotine mix that is fully unflavored so I haven’t found the need to quit again because frankly the health risks are very low.
  - dogman144 3y ago
    I’ve quit as well and imo there’s no “quit before,” it’s quit or still doing it. I respect your opinion but I can’t really take a nicotine addict’s claim that the substance isn’t harmful, when the addict hasn’t actually ever quit the chemical. Somehow along the way “quit” got subbed in with “vaping but it’s basically the same as quit.” Biggest marketing con the industry has ever pulled.
    - RobotCaleb 3y ago
      Yes! I wholeheartedly agree. You can only quit once. You may have stopped before, but if you ever pick it back up then you didn't quit. Turning quit into a waffle word takes away its impact and probably eases some psychological constraints for people.
    - dyauspitr 3y ago
      Oh, I am not saying I quit. I meant to say I made an attempt at quitting and succeeded for sometime. I am not calling vaping “quitting”. What does my quitting have to do with its effects? If nicotine is dangerous it’s going to be that way if I quit of not.
      - dogman144 3y ago
        Try to quit fully, long term, and then tell me the chemical isn’t dangerous after that process is complete for you.
ramblenode 3y ago
Nicotine use without smoking raises heart rate, constricts blood vessels, raises blood pressure, and remodels the cardiovascular system and individual cells. Those cardiovascular changes are associated with stroke and dementia. It stimulates the mesolimbic dopamine system which causes downregulation of dopamine receptors, addiction, and feeling less good when you aren't ingesting nicotine. Here is an overview: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/
- dyauspitr 3y ago
  There isn’t a single mention of dementia in that paper. The only mention of stroke is associated with cigarette smoking. It talks primarily about nicotine’s effect on the vascular system and the effects seem minimal, even in mice. Here’s a pretty comprehensive list of the benefits of nicotine and the lack of significant side effects. https://gwern.net/nicotine#benefits https://gwern.net/nicotine#benefits Here’s the conclusion he came up with after significant perusal of the research “Nicotine is pretty much harmless, the studies are clear, the relevant areas & studies comprehensible with not too much work, and I feel I can discuss it with a clean conscience. Really, about the worst you can say about pure nicotine use is that it might be a gateway to tobacco or that one’s blood pressure might increase, which are issues that can be easily addressed empirically via additional studies/surveys or by eg. measuring one’s own blood pressure after taking nicotine, respectively.”
- fermisea 3y ago
  Linking nicotine to dementia, which study? For all the other things, the same can be said about coffee. Are we banning coffee?
  - mtlguitarist 3y ago
    Except coffee is associated with lower all cause mortality (likely due to the amount of fiber extracted in coffee drinks) [0]. Do you have any evidence of decreased all cause mortality associated with any nicotine product? https://youtu.be/IBB_8vR7wpU?si=0Cmq26oBQ-9dwUNN https://youtu.be/IBB_8vR7wpU?si=0Cmq26oBQ-9dwUNN

oyashirochama 3y ago

Nicotine DOES cause health issues, most of them are extreme versions of caffeine, and due to the severity should be controlled a little similar to alcohol.

dyauspitr 3y ago
What are they. I’ve done a lot of research and the most I could find is a slightly increased cardiovascular risk. It has been a few years since I looked into it so maybe there is new research I’m missing. Maybe you’re referring to a nicotine overdose which is a separate discussion.

39896880 3y ago

I think you mean “dependency” and not “addiction.” Addiction is by definition a bad thing: “Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behaviour that produces natural reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences.” You’re right about nicotine though. It’s the delivery that’s the problem, in addition to the addictive properties which make the harm of the delivery less salient. Emphasis mine. From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction?wprov=sfti1#

dyauspitr 3y ago
That’s my point. A nicotine addiction does not satisfy the “despite substantial harm and other negative consequences” corollary. Using a high quality vape pen and unflavored vegetable glycerine as the base, the delivery issue is somewhat resolved.
joquarky 3y ago
Anyone else remember when "internet addiction" was a thing?

dogman144 3y ago

Have you had said addiction, and if so have you tried to quit it?

dyauspitr 3y ago
I do have the addiction and I have quit before but it’s really hard. That was when I smoked cigarettes and needed to quit because I was severely harming my body. I now vape with a 100% vegetable glycerin and nicotine mix that is fully unflavored so I haven’t found the need to quit again because frankly the health risks are very low.
- dogman144 3y ago
  I’ve quit as well and imo there’s no “quit before,” it’s quit or still doing it. I respect your opinion but I can’t really take a nicotine addict’s claim that the substance isn’t harmful, when the addict hasn’t actually ever quit the chemical. Somehow along the way “quit” got subbed in with “vaping but it’s basically the same as quit.” Biggest marketing con the industry has ever pulled.
  - RobotCaleb 3y ago
    Yes! I wholeheartedly agree. You can only quit once. You may have stopped before, but if you ever pick it back up then you didn't quit. Turning quit into a waffle word takes away its impact and probably eases some psychological constraints for people.
  - dyauspitr 3y ago
    Oh, I am not saying I quit. I meant to say I made an attempt at quitting and succeeded for sometime. I am not calling vaping “quitting”. What does my quitting have to do with its effects? If nicotine is dangerous it’s going to be that way if I quit of not.
    - dogman144 3y ago
      Try to quit fully, long term, and then tell me the chemical isn’t dangerous after that process is complete for you.

ramblenode 3y ago

Nicotine use without smoking raises heart rate, constricts blood vessels, raises blood pressure, and remodels the cardiovascular system and individual cells. Those cardiovascular changes are associated with stroke and dementia. It stimulates the mesolimbic dopamine system which causes downregulation of dopamine receptors, addiction, and feeling less good when you aren't ingesting nicotine. Here is an overview: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8026694/

dyauspitr 3y ago
There isn’t a single mention of dementia in that paper. The only mention of stroke is associated with cigarette smoking. It talks primarily about nicotine’s effect on the vascular system and the effects seem minimal, even in mice. Here’s a pretty comprehensive list of the benefits of nicotine and the lack of significant side effects. https://gwern.net/nicotine#benefits https://gwern.net/nicotine#benefits Here’s the conclusion he came up with after significant perusal of the research “Nicotine is pretty much harmless, the studies are clear, the relevant areas & studies comprehensible with not too much work, and I feel I can discuss it with a clean conscience. Really, about the worst you can say about pure nicotine use is that it might be a gateway to tobacco or that one’s blood pressure might increase, which are issues that can be easily addressed empirically via additional studies/surveys or by eg. measuring one’s own blood pressure after taking nicotine, respectively.”
fermisea 3y ago
Linking nicotine to dementia, which study? For all the other things, the same can be said about coffee. Are we banning coffee?
- mtlguitarist 3y ago
  Except coffee is associated with lower all cause mortality (likely due to the amount of fiber extracted in coffee drinks) [0]. Do you have any evidence of decreased all cause mortality associated with any nicotine product? https://youtu.be/IBB_8vR7wpU?si=0Cmq26oBQ-9dwUNN https://youtu.be/IBB_8vR7wpU?si=0Cmq26oBQ-9dwUNN