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>If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior? If you are so desperate for Russia to win, why don't you

>If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior? If you are so desperate for Russia to win, why don't you go and join the Russian army and join a meat wave? > shouldn't ukranian individuals have a choice Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
I'm not desparate for russia to win, I just support people to have a chance to not die for the lines on the map. It's not just ukraine forcing them to do so (and us helping them), but there are actual movements within EU to forcibly send the ones who escaped back. If you want to fight russia, you're free to do so, but you shouldn't be able to force others to do so. > Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao. Sure, and it's wrong and should be abolished. Aren't we the ones supporting democracy here? At least you're acting as if you are, as long as ukranian men have no choice but to die in a war you support more than them.
- twixfel 2y ago
  Nothing necessarily antidemocratic about conscription. Finland is a democracy and has conscription. You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Do you believe it's possible to support Ukraine, criticize and blame Russia for the conflict, and still think there's much to criticize about the Ukrainian response? It seems like you're not comfortable with that level of nuance, and you're being very disrespectful as a result.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      Of course, but they very clearly support Russia, so that does not apply here. They explicitly state that Ukraine should stop fighting, i.e., let Russia win. They state The Independent and Russia Today are two equally trustworthy news sources. That is not serious. Anyone who says we should support Ukraine is told that we should go and join the Ukrainian army, also ridiculous. I do not respect such people, so I am being disrespectful, indeed. I do not care, either. If you think I am being an arsehole, that's fine, you're probably right, but if you cannot see that the other guy is also at least as much of an arsehole as I am, then you presumably have very interesting opinions on the Russian attack on Ukraine, just like he does.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    Conscription is undemocratic by design. If the democratic majority wants to fight, you have more than enough volunteer soldiers to either win (or lose ~1/2 of your population...). If you can't get any volunteers any more, their opinion on if they want to fight or not is already known, even without a democratic referendum. ...at least if you only count the votes of people whose opinion actually matters here.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        What good will that do? 1 outrage = one prayer? Or whatever that faceook boomer meme was? Now is the time to prevent forciful conscription in other countries, because our politicians are steering us towards war, and I don't want to die for them. If someone volunteers, sure, if not, then sit down and negotiate. I don't live in neither russia not ukraine... my outrage went to my (small, eu) country occupying afghanistan and still having soldiers in syria. Sadly noone gave so much weapons and money to afghanistan/syria/libya/... to help them win the war.
        twixfel 2y ago
        What good does your seething on HN do? My point is if you're going to rage about the war in Ukraine, you should probably rage and seethe about the invader, not criticise Ukraine for defending itself lmao. If your only problem is that Ukraine has conscription, well so too does Russia, but you only criticise Ukraine, and repeat Russian imperialist/fascist talking points about defending Russians in Ukraine.. so it is very transparent where your sympathies really lie.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

I'm not desparate for russia to win, I just support people to have a chance to not die for the lines on the map. It's not just ukraine forcing them to do so (and us helping them), but there are actual movements within EU to forcibly send the ones who escaped back. If you want to fight russia, you're free to do so, but you shouldn't be able to force others to do so. > Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao. Sure, and it's wrong and should be abolished. Aren't we the ones supporting democracy here? At least you're acting as if you are, as long as ukranian men have no choice but to die in a war you support more than them.

twixfel 2y ago
Nothing necessarily antidemocratic about conscription. Finland is a democracy and has conscription. You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  Do you believe it's possible to support Ukraine, criticize and blame Russia for the conflict, and still think there's much to criticize about the Ukrainian response? It seems like you're not comfortable with that level of nuance, and you're being very disrespectful as a result.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    Of course, but they very clearly support Russia, so that does not apply here. They explicitly state that Ukraine should stop fighting, i.e., let Russia win. They state The Independent and Russia Today are two equally trustworthy news sources. That is not serious. Anyone who says we should support Ukraine is told that we should go and join the Ukrainian army, also ridiculous. I do not respect such people, so I am being disrespectful, indeed. I do not care, either. If you think I am being an arsehole, that's fine, you're probably right, but if you cannot see that the other guy is also at least as much of an arsehole as I am, then you presumably have very interesting opinions on the Russian attack on Ukraine, just like he does.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Conscription is undemocratic by design. If the democratic majority wants to fight, you have more than enough volunteer soldiers to either win (or lose ~1/2 of your population...). If you can't get any volunteers any more, their opinion on if they want to fight or not is already known, even without a democratic referendum. ...at least if you only count the votes of people whose opinion actually matters here.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      What good will that do? 1 outrage = one prayer? Or whatever that faceook boomer meme was? Now is the time to prevent forciful conscription in other countries, because our politicians are steering us towards war, and I don't want to die for them. If someone volunteers, sure, if not, then sit down and negotiate. I don't live in neither russia not ukraine... my outrage went to my (small, eu) country occupying afghanistan and still having soldiers in syria. Sadly noone gave so much weapons and money to afghanistan/syria/libya/... to help them win the war.
      - twixfel 2y ago
        What good does your seething on HN do? My point is if you're going to rage about the war in Ukraine, you should probably rage and seethe about the invader, not criticise Ukraine for defending itself lmao. If your only problem is that Ukraine has conscription, well so too does Russia, but you only criticise Ukraine, and repeat Russian imperialist/fascist talking points about defending Russians in Ukraine.. so it is very transparent where your sympathies really lie.