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Yeah that's why war sucks bro. People end up getting conscripted when the war is for the very existence of the country itself. It sucks. So Russia should wit

Yeah that's why war sucks bro. People end up getting conscripted when the war is for the very existence of the country itself. It sucks. So Russia should withdraw. Anyway seethe more. And keep acting all shocked and outraged that countries produce propaganda during war time when they are attacked. Lol.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
But if people prefer their own life to some lines on the map... why should we force them to fight? I mean.. shouldn't ukranian individuals have a choice? Are we really supporting forcefully sending them to die? Is this "democracy"? "western way of life"? If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior?
- twixfel 2y ago
  >If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior? If you are so desperate for Russia to win, why don't you go and join the Russian army and join a meat wave? > shouldn't ukranian individuals have a choice Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    I'm not desparate for russia to win, I just support people to have a chance to not die for the lines on the map. It's not just ukraine forcing them to do so (and us helping them), but there are actual movements within EU to forcibly send the ones who escaped back. If you want to fight russia, you're free to do so, but you shouldn't be able to force others to do so. > Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao. Sure, and it's wrong and should be abolished. Aren't we the ones supporting democracy here? At least you're acting as if you are, as long as ukranian men have no choice but to die in a war you support more than them.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      Nothing necessarily antidemocratic about conscription. Finland is a democracy and has conscription. You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        Do you believe it's possible to support Ukraine, criticize and blame Russia for the conflict, and still think there's much to criticize about the Ukrainian response? It seems like you're not comfortable with that level of nuance, and you're being very disrespectful as a result.
        twixfel 2y ago
        Of course, but they very clearly support Russia, so that does not apply here. They explicitly state that Ukraine should stop fighting, i.e., let Russia win. They state The Independent and Russia Today are two equally trustworthy news sources. That is not serious. Anyone who says we should support Ukraine is told that we should go and join the Ukrainian army, also ridiculous. I do not respect such people, so I am being disrespectful, indeed. I do not care, either. If you think I am being an arsehole, that's fine, you're probably right, but if you cannot see that the other guy is also at least as much of an arsehole as I am, then you presumably have very interesting opinions on the Russian attack on Ukraine, just like he does.
      - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
        Conscription is undemocratic by design. If the democratic majority wants to fight, you have more than enough volunteer soldiers to either win (or lose ~1/2 of your population...). If you can't get any volunteers any more, their opinion on if they want to fight or not is already known, even without a democratic referendum. ...at least if you only count the votes of people whose opinion actually matters here.
        twixfel 2y ago
- discreteevent 2y ago
  North Korea is a line on a map. >why not help with the fighting This is a really common refrain from paid Russian trolls. It means that someone cannot argue against an injust invasion unless they fight themselves - which is ridiculous. So you are either a troll, or just stupid. Based on the rest of your comments I'm certain you are a troll. What is really sick is that you claim to be concerned about Ukrainian lives when you are actively supporting their daily massacre.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    You can argue all you want, but you shouldn't be able to force people to die for your arguments. And ukranian men don't want to die. Instead of arguing, you come with the "paid troll" accusations and personal attacks.. come on. It's one thing to argue about injustness (especially if you're from one of the coutries that is currently invading some other country, or recently has been, like syria or afghanistan.. like my country did), but you canot argue about ukranians having to die for whatever you consider to be right. If you support any kind of democracy, and if there is noone left who wants to volounteer and fight, the democractic opinion is already known (at least the opinion of those whose opinion should matter). If you believe that dying in this war is worth it, for whatever reason, you can replace a ukranian guy who doesn't believe that.
    - discreteevent 2y ago
      I'm not willing to fight for Ukraine but I am willing to support them. If my country was at risk of being ruled by the thugs in the Kremlin, I would fight for it and I would welcome support from anyone. Your line of argument (idiotic though it is ) is used frequently by trolls because it is very effective at shutting down conversation. You can't threaten violence directly but you would if you could. You are supporting a regime that kills, rapes and kidnaps children (you will deny this because you are a paid troll but it's absolutely clear from your arguments that you do) Anyway, you are clearly delighted to get more opportunities to repeat it so I will shut up now.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    You've made it so deep into this discussion and now is when you pull out the "paid troll" comment? Speak directly and don't imply things you're not confident enough to say outright. And frankly, 99% of claims of paid trolls sound like conspiracy theories to my ears.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

But if people prefer their own life to some lines on the map... why should we force them to fight? I mean.. shouldn't ukranian individuals have a choice? Are we really supporting forcefully sending them to die? Is this "democracy"? "western way of life"? If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior?

twixfel 2y ago
>If you prefer lines on the map, why not help with the fighting, instead of being a keyboard warrior? If you are so desperate for Russia to win, why don't you go and join the Russian army and join a meat wave? > shouldn't ukranian individuals have a choice Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  I'm not desparate for russia to win, I just support people to have a chance to not die for the lines on the map. It's not just ukraine forcing them to do so (and us helping them), but there are actual movements within EU to forcibly send the ones who escaped back. If you want to fight russia, you're free to do so, but you shouldn't be able to force others to do so. > Conscription in its various forms is as old as warfare itself. I cannot believe you think Ukraine invented conscription lmao. Sure, and it's wrong and should be abolished. Aren't we the ones supporting democracy here? At least you're acting as if you are, as long as ukranian men have no choice but to die in a war you support more than them.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    Nothing necessarily antidemocratic about conscription. Finland is a democracy and has conscription. You need to focus your outrage on Russia for invading Ukraine instead of Ukraine for defending itself.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      Do you believe it's possible to support Ukraine, criticize and blame Russia for the conflict, and still think there's much to criticize about the Ukrainian response? It seems like you're not comfortable with that level of nuance, and you're being very disrespectful as a result.
      - twixfel 2y ago
        Of course, but they very clearly support Russia, so that does not apply here. They explicitly state that Ukraine should stop fighting, i.e., let Russia win. They state The Independent and Russia Today are two equally trustworthy news sources. That is not serious. Anyone who says we should support Ukraine is told that we should go and join the Ukrainian army, also ridiculous. I do not respect such people, so I am being disrespectful, indeed. I do not care, either. If you think I am being an arsehole, that's fine, you're probably right, but if you cannot see that the other guy is also at least as much of an arsehole as I am, then you presumably have very interesting opinions on the Russian attack on Ukraine, just like he does.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      Conscription is undemocratic by design. If the democratic majority wants to fight, you have more than enough volunteer soldiers to either win (or lose ~1/2 of your population...). If you can't get any volunteers any more, their opinion on if they want to fight or not is already known, even without a democratic referendum. ...at least if you only count the votes of people whose opinion actually matters here.
      - twixfel 2y ago
discreteevent 2y ago
North Korea is a line on a map. >why not help with the fighting This is a really common refrain from paid Russian trolls. It means that someone cannot argue against an injust invasion unless they fight themselves - which is ridiculous. So you are either a troll, or just stupid. Based on the rest of your comments I'm certain you are a troll. What is really sick is that you claim to be concerned about Ukrainian lives when you are actively supporting their daily massacre.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  You can argue all you want, but you shouldn't be able to force people to die for your arguments. And ukranian men don't want to die. Instead of arguing, you come with the "paid troll" accusations and personal attacks.. come on. It's one thing to argue about injustness (especially if you're from one of the coutries that is currently invading some other country, or recently has been, like syria or afghanistan.. like my country did), but you canot argue about ukranians having to die for whatever you consider to be right. If you support any kind of democracy, and if there is noone left who wants to volounteer and fight, the democractic opinion is already known (at least the opinion of those whose opinion should matter). If you believe that dying in this war is worth it, for whatever reason, you can replace a ukranian guy who doesn't believe that.
  - discreteevent 2y ago
    I'm not willing to fight for Ukraine but I am willing to support them. If my country was at risk of being ruled by the thugs in the Kremlin, I would fight for it and I would welcome support from anyone. Your line of argument (idiotic though it is ) is used frequently by trolls because it is very effective at shutting down conversation. You can't threaten violence directly but you would if you could. You are supporting a regime that kills, rapes and kidnaps children (you will deny this because you are a paid troll but it's absolutely clear from your arguments that you do) Anyway, you are clearly delighted to get more opportunities to repeat it so I will shut up now.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  You've made it so deep into this discussion and now is when you pull out the "paid troll" comment? Speak directly and don't imply things you're not confident enough to say outright. And frankly, 99% of claims of paid trolls sound like conspiracy theories to my ears.