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>Criticism of the actions of the government of Israel is not the same thing as anti-semitism Unfortunately, it seems the protesters themselves often don't make
by Clubber 2y ago
>Criticism of the actions of the government of Israel is not the same thing as anti-semitism
Unfortunately, it seems the protesters themselves often don't make the distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoI've seen thousands upon thousands of people protesting with my own eyes but never caught onto anything anti semitic. In fact I often see Jewish groups attending as well. I'm sure there often are people espousing vile views, that's a statistical inevitability almost, but it's clearly far from the norm.
- Clubber 2y agoI'm just going on what the news says, and you know how the news likes to misrepresent stuff for clicks, but here's a few articles on the topic. https://abcnews.go.com/US/student-protesters-denounce-antisemitism-amid-criticism-pro-palestinian/story?id=109643275 https://abcnews.go.com/US/student-protesters-denounce-antise... https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/israel-hamas-war-protests-boston-jewish-students/ https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/israel-hamas-war-protest... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/03/college-gaza-protests-antisemitism https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/03/coll...
- AlecSchueler 2y agoYes, I know it well. I remember a very striking moment during some protests in London. The GB news was presenting it as having turned violent, with close ups of protesters clashing against the police. At the same time many individuals who were at the events themselves were able to broadcast on social media showing thousands of people peacefully walking together in a very positive atmosphere totally unaware that a small alteration had taken place elsewhere on the fringe of the event.
- pdinny 2y agoThis is, by definition ("the protesters" used to generalise to all protesters), a gross generalisation. Based on what evidence? All the protests I have been to people have taken great pains to make that distinction. Comments like the above merely reinforce what I'm saying: the basis of criticism is never engaged with in terms of its own merits or content but is dismissed using ad hominem.
- Clubber 2y agoI like how you cut my quote in half to misrepresent what I said. Well done.
- pdinny 2y agoI do sincerely apologise for omitting the word "often". My point remains that generalisations should not be made based on the views of a minority. I have noticed that US media in particular presents a very one-sided accounting of protests. Axios, for examples, implies that Pro-Palestinian protests at colleges are a form of anti-semitism. Again, I apologise. That was in error, not malice.
- Clubber 2y agoThanks for that. The same thing is happening to this protest as what happened in many other protests in the US. The news is finding outliers and representing it as the norm. January 6th, the majority of those people weren't trying to overthrow the government, but all the protesters were branded as doing just that, and many got pretty harsh sentences for it. BLM protests were similar with the fires and the riots. The vast majority of BLM protesters were non-violent but they were all branded as rioters and fire starters. The media is now running that play against the pro-Gaza protests and trying to paint them all as antisemitic by pointing out some antisemitic things some people in the protests said. It's the standard playbook that happens again and again and again. It's almost as if the large media companies work for the status quo and feel any protests is a threat to that; which it is.
- Adverblessly 2y agoYou appear to have fallen victim to a similar attempt at conflation, Zionism is a movement to fulfill the right for Jewish self-determination in their native land of thousands of years. Being antizionism is antisemitism because it negates the right to self-determination of the Jewish people. I realize though that what you actually means is anti-Israel, or if we are being more specific, I assume anti-Israeli-far-right or anti-Israeli-right. E.g. if you are for a two-state solution you are in agreement with the Israeli center and left (mostly, but that's just going into too many details).
- ethbr1 2y ago> Zionism is a movement to fulfill the right for Jewish self-determination in their native land of thousands of years. This is the definition that makes Zionism troubling. Why not just disenfranchise and/or murder any non-Jewish person within the borders of the Jewish people's native land?
- Adverblessly 2y agoWhy not just disenfranchise and/or murder any non-French person within the borders of the French people's native land?
- meiraleal 2y agoWhat's meant is that nobody would be called antisemitic for being against them if not for the fairy tale definition of a promised land.
- Adverblessly 2y agoNot sure what you mean by a fairy tale definition of a promised land, we are talking about actual land that they've actually lived in for thousands of years (though naturally not all of it continuously, after the Roman exile not that many Jews were left. Though if you accept that as removing their right to live there then surely you'll have no problem with Israel doing the same to the Palestinians).
- dudeinjapan 2y agoI think it's ok so long as we keep the protests at Beer Hall Putsch levels and don't go full Reichstag fire.