6 ms·

Sony overturns Helldivers 2 PSN requirement following backlash

87 points by gulced 2y ago

everdrive 2y ago
This is great news, and I hope Sony gets some well-deserved praise for this. I'm generally not pro-corporate, or pro-tech company in any context. However, when a company compromises to please its customers, that behavior should be rewarded; the worst thing that could happen ideologues could continue trying to turn the screws.
- aqme28 2y ago
  Why do you say it should be rewarded? If anything, it should just stop being punished.
- bitcharmer 2y ago
  Not screwing your users should be the norm, not a reason for praise.
  - HelloNurse 2y ago
    With the additional distinction between not screwing customers by choice, because of a prosocial attitude towards people and markets, and (like in this case) not screwing the users as an emergency fallback plan, after boldly trying to.
- Kipters 2y ago
  I don't think they deserve praise, they just acted in defense of their bottom line. The game was losing players and it was being review bombed because of this change, while losing players' trust. I'm sure they would have maintained the requirement if they could, despite the backlash. But money got in the way.
- gklitz 2y ago
  > This is great news, and I hope Sony gets some well-deserved praise for this. What? If someone holds you up at gunpoint but decides to let you go after you scream for the police, they dont get praise they get jail time. Sony did nothing right in a situation where the right thing would have been to do nothing at all to begin with. They decided to try to strangle a huge success for the sake of cash. The fact that They reverted after the game ene from “overwhelmingly positive” to “overwhelmingly negative” and they got bombed with refund requests isn’t something to praise, it’s a given. They realized that they fucked up royally and that their plan to spin the community to PSN would not work so they stopped. The people deserving praise are the players and the community that united against Sony, and the developers and leads who listened to the community and honestly and openly said “if you don’t like it speak up, we can’t change the decision but Sony will have to listen to the response”
- HelloNurse 2y ago
  It's the same line of reasoning as praising street robbers who run away before committing a crime because they accidentally target a dangerous person.
- xyst 2y ago
  Praise? They were caught with their pants down. They fixed the issue after realizing how it’s impacting their bottom line (massive refunds across the PC users). I have no doubt if refunds were not an issue, then Sony would have given gamers the equivalent of a middle finger. Forget your privacy concerns.
- goda90 2y ago
  Their reward will be gamers easing off the complaints and refund requests. Maybe some will change their Steam reviews even.
- gaius_baltar 2y ago
  These companies don't deserve any kind of pat on the back for just doing the bare minimum. Doing the right thing or making minor concessions to customers is not something that deserves special recognition - it is the basic responsibility of corporations. Too often, these corporations act all high and mighty when they make some tiny concession to customers or avoid a PR disaster. That's not them being generous or ethical, that's just them covering their own butts. They have all the money and power in the world, so the least they can do is meet basic standards.We should not reward this as if it is some noble, praiseworthy behavior. Corporations have immense power and resources. When they finally decide to do the right thing after public pressure, that is not deserving of accolades. They are looking out for themselves first and foremost. So let's not act like they're heroes for it - they're just avoiding getting called out, that's all. True ethics and responsibility from corporations should be the norm, not some rare, praise-worthy occurrence.
zzbzq 2y ago
[flagged]
- __alexs 2y ago
  PSN is not available in many countries so this resulted in lots of players just being unable to play anymore.
  - zzbzq 2y ago
    But these gamers don't live in those countries. It just seems like at best some kind of phony outrage, if not completely astroturf.
    - __alexs 2y ago
      Gamers like to get mad and overreact about stuff sure but there are some legitimate issues here, it's not purely just gamer-whining. If you bought a game and now there's just no way to play it with your friends anymore, that's bad. If you bought a game, and suddenly you are forced to share all your personal information with an additional third party, that's also bad.
- jsheard 2y ago
  Not really, a big chunk of players had good reason to be angry. PSN accounts aren't available in half of the world, and the Steam listing was initially set up to allow anyone to buy the game, so many people would have been locked out of what they paid for. Steam opened up extended refunds due to extenuating circumstances but only after the controversy blew up.
  - masklinn 2y ago
    > so many people would have been locked out of what they paid for. And that's an important point, Helldivers is not an f2p game, it's a $40 upfront game, with cosmetic IAPs on top.
- aqme28 2y ago
vaylian 2y ago
This is far from the first time Sony has been called out for their consumer-hostile behaviour. Sony used to install rootkit-based DRM on customer's computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...
- xyst 2y ago
  the lengths Sony and other media publishers go to “protect” their IP is insane.
- Kipters 2y ago
  Even in more recent times, the entire PS5 life thus far has been riddled with consumer-hostile behavior (promising free upgrades and then walking back from it, forcing people to use the new controllers even if the PS4 ones are perfectly capable to play the new games, increasing prices of games and consoles, bullying companies so they don't support cross-platform play etc)
  - jeppester 2y ago
    I don't think Sony are by any means "good guys". But I think some of your criticism lacks a bit of nuance. > promising free upgrades and then walking back from it When did they do this? As I remember they did not promise free upgrades, but was forced to provide them anyway for some games because of the backlash. > forcing people to use the new controllers even if the PS4 ones are perfectly capable to play the new games This is an interesting topic. The PS5 controller is one of the console's key selling points over competing consoles. I can definitely understand why they would want to ensure that game developers support that controller specifically. Otherwise its features would likely not be used as much by third party games, which would be a shame. Obviously Sony factored the additional earnings from controller sales into their decision to enact this artificial limitation. But I think there's more to it than just consumer hostility. > increasing prices of games and consoles They were the first company to increase the price of their AAA games, which everyone has since done as well. How did they raise the price of consoles? > bullying companies so they don't support cross-platform play Definitely consumer-hostile. Luckily things have changed for the better in this generation due to better competition I guess. I would just wish that more games would have "console only" crossplay.
skeletal88 2y ago
It is not only about requiring the sony account in countries where it is not available. It is also about forcing players to log into yet another useless account, when the game is bought from steam. This practice is widely hated by gamers everywhere. If I buy a game on Steam, why would I be required to log in to some other account or launcher to actually start the game. The publishers wish to somehow capture the players with their own launchers, but this is never going to do them any good and is widely hated.
- zorked 2y ago
  Overdue for Steam to forbid the practice.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    Would probably be seen by governments as anti competitive and abusing their monopoly position.
    - wolrah 2y ago
      > Would probably be seen by governments as anti competitive and abusing their monopoly position. What monopoly position? There are dozens of game stores available on all the platforms Steam supports with nothing restricting users from installing and using however many of them they want. Outside of Valve's own Steam Deck hardware users had to go out of their way to install Steam in the first place. Even there the installation of third party launchers is not just supported but encouraged. Some of the world's most popular games are not even available on Steam.
  - barkbyte 2y ago
    That’s not their job, and they already do what they need to: it requires disclosure in the games page/metadata. Customers can make an informed choice, except for cases like this where it’s changed post release.
    - wolrah 2y ago
xyst 2y ago
Very rare for a multibillion dollar company to bend the knee. All it took was a 3-4 day campaign of PR hell, and refunds from around the globe to get them to move an inch. I bet Sony has a backlog issue to make account creation globally available. Then at that point, there will be nothing to stop them from forcing it down everyones throat. What I have heard is that in some countries (UK?), Sony requires identity verification to register an account ( similar to “id.me” or login.gov) for a gaming service. Shit is wild
theden 2y ago
Same energy is needed for the kernel-level anti-cheat software, which ought to be a dealbreaker for Helldivers IMO
miohtama 2y ago
I wish the best luck in new challenges for the Sony intern who was responsible for the decision to consider PSN as mandatory in the first place. No one could see this happening.
- Intermernet 2y ago
  They'll have been promoted to a manager, if they weren't one already.
- spicyusername 2y ago
  I very much believe this strategy came straight from the top. I assume that it is widely believed that account activation enables all kinds desirable outcomes - additional data collection, product stickiness, a marketing target, a pre-activated credit card, etc - even if it is customer hostile and customers absolutely hate it. We've long been in the phase of consolidated corporate capitalism where a company as large as Sony believes they can just force you to do what they want, if they believe it's good for them. Unfortunately, without competition, they are probably right to believe this, at least in the short to medium term. I think that people just don't tend to vote with their dollar, like they should, when there are no alternatives. But I do think that companies that are customer-hostile eventually pay the price, even if two, or three, or ten executive teams get to cash out first.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40271104 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40271104
pcal 2y ago
[flagged]
pcal 2y ago
[flagged]
polishdude20 2y ago
Is it just me? Or should Don't and PSN just stick with PlayStation based games? If you want to use a PlayStation then fine, get a PSN account I can understand that. But if I play the game on Steam on my PC which has no ties to Sony, why do I need a PSN account at all?

87 points by gulced 2y ago

This is great news, and I hope Sony gets some well-deserved praise for this. I'm generally not pro-corporate, or pro-tech company in any context. However, when a company compromises to please its customers, that behavior should be rewarded; the worst thing that could happen ideologues could continue trying to turn the screws.

aqme28 2y ago
Why do you say it should be rewarded? If anything, it should just stop being punished.
bitcharmer 2y ago
Not screwing your users should be the norm, not a reason for praise.
- HelloNurse 2y ago
  With the additional distinction between not screwing customers by choice, because of a prosocial attitude towards people and markets, and (like in this case) not screwing the users as an emergency fallback plan, after boldly trying to.
Kipters 2y ago
I don't think they deserve praise, they just acted in defense of their bottom line. The game was losing players and it was being review bombed because of this change, while losing players' trust. I'm sure they would have maintained the requirement if they could, despite the backlash. But money got in the way.
gklitz 2y ago
> This is great news, and I hope Sony gets some well-deserved praise for this. What? If someone holds you up at gunpoint but decides to let you go after you scream for the police, they dont get praise they get jail time. Sony did nothing right in a situation where the right thing would have been to do nothing at all to begin with. They decided to try to strangle a huge success for the sake of cash. The fact that They reverted after the game ene from “overwhelmingly positive” to “overwhelmingly negative” and they got bombed with refund requests isn’t something to praise, it’s a given. They realized that they fucked up royally and that their plan to spin the community to PSN would not work so they stopped. The people deserving praise are the players and the community that united against Sony, and the developers and leads who listened to the community and honestly and openly said “if you don’t like it speak up, we can’t change the decision but Sony will have to listen to the response”
HelloNurse 2y ago
It's the same line of reasoning as praising street robbers who run away before committing a crime because they accidentally target a dangerous person.
xyst 2y ago
Praise? They were caught with their pants down. They fixed the issue after realizing how it’s impacting their bottom line (massive refunds across the PC users). I have no doubt if refunds were not an issue, then Sony would have given gamers the equivalent of a middle finger. Forget your privacy concerns.
goda90 2y ago
Their reward will be gamers easing off the complaints and refund requests. Maybe some will change their Steam reviews even.
gaius_baltar 2y ago
These companies don't deserve any kind of pat on the back for just doing the bare minimum. Doing the right thing or making minor concessions to customers is not something that deserves special recognition - it is the basic responsibility of corporations. Too often, these corporations act all high and mighty when they make some tiny concession to customers or avoid a PR disaster. That's not them being generous or ethical, that's just them covering their own butts. They have all the money and power in the world, so the least they can do is meet basic standards.We should not reward this as if it is some noble, praiseworthy behavior. Corporations have immense power and resources. When they finally decide to do the right thing after public pressure, that is not deserving of accolades. They are looking out for themselves first and foremost. So let's not act like they're heroes for it - they're just avoiding getting called out, that's all. True ethics and responsibility from corporations should be the norm, not some rare, praise-worthy occurrence.

zzbzq 2y ago

[flagged]

__alexs 2y ago
PSN is not available in many countries so this resulted in lots of players just being unable to play anymore.
- zzbzq 2y ago
  But these gamers don't live in those countries. It just seems like at best some kind of phony outrage, if not completely astroturf.
  - __alexs 2y ago
    Gamers like to get mad and overreact about stuff sure but there are some legitimate issues here, it's not purely just gamer-whining. If you bought a game and now there's just no way to play it with your friends anymore, that's bad. If you bought a game, and suddenly you are forced to share all your personal information with an additional third party, that's also bad.
jsheard 2y ago
Not really, a big chunk of players had good reason to be angry. PSN accounts aren't available in half of the world, and the Steam listing was initially set up to allow anyone to buy the game, so many people would have been locked out of what they paid for. Steam opened up extended refunds due to extenuating circumstances but only after the controversy blew up.
- masklinn 2y ago
  > so many people would have been locked out of what they paid for. And that's an important point, Helldivers is not an f2p game, it's a $40 upfront game, with cosmetic IAPs on top.
aqme28 2y ago

vaylian 2y ago

This is far from the first time Sony has been called out for their consumer-hostile behaviour. Sony used to install rootkit-based DRM on customer's computers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

xyst 2y ago
the lengths Sony and other media publishers go to “protect” their IP is insane.
Kipters 2y ago
Even in more recent times, the entire PS5 life thus far has been riddled with consumer-hostile behavior (promising free upgrades and then walking back from it, forcing people to use the new controllers even if the PS4 ones are perfectly capable to play the new games, increasing prices of games and consoles, bullying companies so they don't support cross-platform play etc)
- jeppester 2y ago
  I don't think Sony are by any means "good guys". But I think some of your criticism lacks a bit of nuance. > promising free upgrades and then walking back from it When did they do this? As I remember they did not promise free upgrades, but was forced to provide them anyway for some games because of the backlash. > forcing people to use the new controllers even if the PS4 ones are perfectly capable to play the new games This is an interesting topic. The PS5 controller is one of the console's key selling points over competing consoles. I can definitely understand why they would want to ensure that game developers support that controller specifically. Otherwise its features would likely not be used as much by third party games, which would be a shame. Obviously Sony factored the additional earnings from controller sales into their decision to enact this artificial limitation. But I think there's more to it than just consumer hostility. > increasing prices of games and consoles They were the first company to increase the price of their AAA games, which everyone has since done as well. How did they raise the price of consoles? > bullying companies so they don't support cross-platform play Definitely consumer-hostile. Luckily things have changed for the better in this generation due to better competition I guess. I would just wish that more games would have "console only" crossplay.

skeletal88 2y ago

It is not only about requiring the sony account in countries where it is not available. It is also about forcing players to log into yet another useless account, when the game is bought from steam. This practice is widely hated by gamers everywhere. If I buy a game on Steam, why would I be required to log in to some other account or launcher to actually start the game. The publishers wish to somehow capture the players with their own launchers, but this is never going to do them any good and is widely hated.

zorked 2y ago
Overdue for Steam to forbid the practice.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  Would probably be seen by governments as anti competitive and abusing their monopoly position.
  - wolrah 2y ago
    > Would probably be seen by governments as anti competitive and abusing their monopoly position. What monopoly position? There are dozens of game stores available on all the platforms Steam supports with nothing restricting users from installing and using however many of them they want. Outside of Valve's own Steam Deck hardware users had to go out of their way to install Steam in the first place. Even there the installation of third party launchers is not just supported but encouraged. Some of the world's most popular games are not even available on Steam.
- barkbyte 2y ago
  That’s not their job, and they already do what they need to: it requires disclosure in the games page/metadata. Customers can make an informed choice, except for cases like this where it’s changed post release.
  - wolrah 2y ago

xyst 2y ago

Very rare for a multibillion dollar company to bend the knee. All it took was a 3-4 day campaign of PR hell, and refunds from around the globe to get them to move an inch. I bet Sony has a backlog issue to make account creation globally available. Then at that point, there will be nothing to stop them from forcing it down everyones throat. What I have heard is that in some countries (UK?), Sony requires identity verification to register an account ( similar to “id.me” or login.gov) for a gaming service. Shit is wild

theden 2y ago

Same energy is needed for the kernel-level anti-cheat software, which ought to be a dealbreaker for Helldivers IMO

miohtama 2y ago

I wish the best luck in new challenges for the Sony intern who was responsible for the decision to consider PSN as mandatory in the first place. No one could see this happening.

Intermernet 2y ago
They'll have been promoted to a manager, if they weren't one already.
spicyusername 2y ago
I very much believe this strategy came straight from the top. I assume that it is widely believed that account activation enables all kinds desirable outcomes - additional data collection, product stickiness, a marketing target, a pre-activated credit card, etc - even if it is customer hostile and customers absolutely hate it. We've long been in the phase of consolidated corporate capitalism where a company as large as Sony believes they can just force you to do what they want, if they believe it's good for them. Unfortunately, without competition, they are probably right to believe this, at least in the short to medium term. I think that people just don't tend to vote with their dollar, like they should, when there are no alternatives. But I do think that companies that are customer-hostile eventually pay the price, even if two, or three, or ten executive teams get to cash out first.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40271104 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40271104

pcal 2y ago

[flagged]

pcal 2y ago

[flagged]

polishdude20 2y ago

Is it just me? Or should Don't and PSN just stick with PlayStation based games? If you want to use a PlayStation then fine, get a PSN account I can understand that. But if I play the game on Steam on my PC which has no ties to Sony, why do I need a PSN account at all?