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"get to dictate the lives of hundreds of millions of democratic citizens" You are singling out "democratic citizens" as if it is some better kind of people. Y

"get to dictate the lives of hundreds of millions of democratic citizens" You are singling out "democratic citizens" as if it is some better kind of people. Your "democratic citizens" cheered for the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 and reelected Bush even though it had become clear by that time that the "justification" for the invasion was fake. Not impeaching Bush in 2003 was stupid, reelecting him was callous.

libertine 2y ago
> You are singling out "democratic citizens" as if it is some better kind of people. They're not better, they're free to think, express their opinions, have agency over their lives. They're fortunate because they were born in a given place, or because they, or their ancestors fought for that change. My democratic citizens are free to change their minds and change their leaders whenever they see fit. That's the beauty of democracies, it renews itself. I can see you're resentful and stuck in the past, but you're on a Western platform speaking openly about it - you won't be arrested. Maybe you should look at the present and what oppressed citizens are allowing Putin to do in Ukraine.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  So your democratic citizens can elect and reelect leaders who illegally invade other countries and wreck people's lives there but it's outrageous when democratic citizens are a bit inconvenienced by jammed GPS? "I can see you're resentful and stuck in the past" Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the world just forgot what the "democratic citizens" did a couple of decades ago? "The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia." [0] [0] https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/183.html https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/183.ht...
  - libertine 2y ago
    > So your democratic citizens can elect and reelect leaders who illegally invade other countries and wreck people's lives there I'm not sure what you're referring to precisely... I'm assuming Iraq? The guys that tried to pull what Russia is doing in Ukraine, but in Kuwait? Or do you think you can try to annex a sovereign country, violate the UN Charter, and get a slap on the wrist? And yes, democratic citizens can elect, and reelect leaders who make illegalities. > but it's outrageous when democratic citizens are a bit inconvenienced by jammed GPS? Oh my friend, when Russia murdered 300 people on the flight MH17 was a bit more than an inconvenience. > Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the world just forgot what the "democratic citizens" did a couple of decades ago? Not at all, everyone speaks openly about it. Now try to speak about the Tiananmen Square protests in China, or oppose the genocide in Ukraine in Russia, for example. No one hides the past in Western democracies. Why do you think there's a popular Russian say about Russia: "The Future Is Certain; It's the Past Which Is Unpredictable" - now Putin is trying to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      I'm talking about the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 by the so called 'Coalition of willing': the US, the UK, Australia, Poland, Denmark, Spain, Italy, Netherlands[0]. All are full of 'democratic citizens'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq
      - libertine 2y ago
        It was indeed an illegal invasion, but the problem was not having taken over in the Golf War - it should have been settled then.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        It was settled then - Saddam's chemical weapons were destroyed in the aftermath of the Gulf War.
        libertine 2y ago
        That's not settling anything. A leader of a country that tries to commit genocide and/or annex another country isn't fit to rule. That's what we learned from WW2, remember?
        protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
        libertine 2y ago
        [flagged]

libertine 2y ago

> You are singling out "democratic citizens" as if it is some better kind of people. They're not better, they're free to think, express their opinions, have agency over their lives. They're fortunate because they were born in a given place, or because they, or their ancestors fought for that change. My democratic citizens are free to change their minds and change their leaders whenever they see fit. That's the beauty of democracies, it renews itself. I can see you're resentful and stuck in the past, but you're on a Western platform speaking openly about it - you won't be arrested. Maybe you should look at the present and what oppressed citizens are allowing Putin to do in Ukraine.

protomolecule 2y ago
So your democratic citizens can elect and reelect leaders who illegally invade other countries and wreck people's lives there but it's outrageous when democratic citizens are a bit inconvenienced by jammed GPS? "I can see you're resentful and stuck in the past" Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the world just forgot what the "democratic citizens" did a couple of decades ago? "The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia." [0] [0] https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/183.html https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/183.ht...
- libertine 2y ago
  > So your democratic citizens can elect and reelect leaders who illegally invade other countries and wreck people's lives there I'm not sure what you're referring to precisely... I'm assuming Iraq? The guys that tried to pull what Russia is doing in Ukraine, but in Kuwait? Or do you think you can try to annex a sovereign country, violate the UN Charter, and get a slap on the wrist? And yes, democratic citizens can elect, and reelect leaders who make illegalities. > but it's outrageous when democratic citizens are a bit inconvenienced by jammed GPS? Oh my friend, when Russia murdered 300 people on the flight MH17 was a bit more than an inconvenience. > Wouldn't it be great if everyone in the world just forgot what the "democratic citizens" did a couple of decades ago? Not at all, everyone speaks openly about it. Now try to speak about the Tiananmen Square protests in China, or oppose the genocide in Ukraine in Russia, for example. No one hides the past in Western democracies. Why do you think there's a popular Russian say about Russia: "The Future Is Certain; It's the Past Which Is Unpredictable" - now Putin is trying to rehabilitate Stalin and Hitler.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    I'm talking about the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 by the so called 'Coalition of willing': the US, the UK, Australia, Poland, Denmark, Spain, Italy, Netherlands[0]. All are full of 'democratic citizens'. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq
    - libertine 2y ago
      It was indeed an illegal invasion, but the problem was not having taken over in the Golf War - it should have been settled then.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        It was settled then - Saddam's chemical weapons were destroyed in the aftermath of the Gulf War.
        libertine 2y ago
        That's not settling anything. A leader of a country that tries to commit genocide and/or annex another country isn't fit to rule. That's what we learned from WW2, remember?
        protomolecule 2y ago
        [flagged]
        libertine 2y ago
        [flagged]