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The sketch of history you’ve laid out here is misleading and wrong. You’re conveniently forgetting the fact that larger powers deliberately set out to destroy l

The sketch of history you’ve laid out here is misleading and wrong. You’re conveniently forgetting the fact that larger powers deliberately set out to destroy local languages in favor of their own imperial ones, and that Romantic nationalism was a direct response to this. Polish nationalism in the 19th century was continually boosted by the anti-Polish cultural behavior of the larger empires, which tried to erase Polish culture and language in favor of German or Russian. Conversely in the Austrian partition, there was more local tolerance for Polish culture and subsequently Poles had a slightly more amicable relationship with the Austrian-Hungarians. It seems you simply don’t know your history.

fch42 3y ago
Strong words ... I for one inplied (and stated) only two things in my posting: 1. The "Polish Partitions" were not unique nor exceptional "for their time". Predatory behaviour by states in Europe has other examples contemporary to the partitions. 2. The aggressive nationalism, not the least by (but also not exclusively by) Germany wasn't a driver of the Polish Partitions, nor did these cause it. The latter is at least rather obvious from mere timing - "Germany" didn't exist, and while the two then-largest/then-most-powerful Prussia/Austria participated in it, the largest (by far) part of the German populace was simply unaffected and indifferent. For, say, a Hannoverian, what happened in England or Holland was likely far more interesting, and had a far more direct impact on their lifes, than what happened in Poland. It's absolutely not an excuse for what happened later, especially not for Germany going down a deep dark path. Did the Polish partitions cause "imperialistic nationalism" ? I'm not sure. Poland got a bad deal from those near-200 years without statehood, agreed. There were a lot of other factors in play then, though, and the world, not even Europe, exclusively revolves around "what happened to Poland", "what Germany did", "what France did" or "what the Church did". If only the history of the world were so trivial, and so objectively to assess. The only thing, really, we can do today is to stand by "Never Again!". To stand against breeding resentment. For fairness. It's not always easy.
- keiferski 3y ago
  Again, you don't seem to have much historical knowledge of the situation and instead are pushing some kind of German superiority propaganda, as suggested by your other comments. I suggest reading more about how Prussia (and Russia) deliberately sought to eradicate Polish culture and the Polish language, long before the Nazis, starting here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_during_the_Partitions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_durin... The rest of your comment is just hand-waving, wishy-washy nonsense that lacks any sort of coherent thesis, probably because you're indirectly trying to argue that Germany is superior to Poland, which is obvious, again, because of your blatantly misleading comments throughout this thread. P.S: you forgot to log out of your alt account when replying to me. Hilarious that you replied to your own comment (as as michael9423) with "Excellent contribution."
  - fch42 3y ago
    I have no alt account. And I object to the accusation that I push any sort of "German Superiority". That way lies utter evil.
michael9423 3y ago
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (not Poland) was partitioned because it consisted of so many different cultures, had massive conflicts within (Targowica Confederation, the Polish nobility fought back against the constitution, causing the second and third partition), and fell prey to more powerful "progressive" powers, which sadly worked to put an end to multi-ethnic states in Europe. No one tried to destroy the Polish culture, people or language. Rather, it was the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that got destroyed. In 1815, most of the eastern parts of this Commonwealth stayed with Russia - as no one there spoke Polish, and the concept of the congress of Vienna was to separate people by their nation. Today, some Poles even hate the Lithuanians, and vice versa. In the territories claimed by Prussia, there was a significant German population. The bourgeoisie of the cities of West Prussia, especially those of the old Hanseatic cities like Danzig, had always been predominantly German-speaking. The areas claimed by Russia were dominated by Greek-Orthodox Ukrainians and Catholic Lithuanians. Thinking in simplistic terms of good and bad, right and wrong, is not helpful if you want to understand history. Empires fought with each other all the time, that's not the issue. The issue is that with nationalism, common people were suddenly made to identify with the struggle of their rulers and were made to hate common people (civilians) of other nations. It was a new idea that a people have to be represented by a nation and have to live in a geographically defined region without people of other cultures. Marion Dönhof was the most internationally respected journalist in post-war Germany, she directly participated in the resistance against Hitler, and studied history, especially the history of her own German and Polish ancestors, for years, while studying at a university in Switzerland. She discovered that before the rise of nationalism, german and polish people were cordial to each other and there was friendship. One of her ancestors was appointed by the Polish King: "When Ahasverus Lehndorff returned home at the age of twenty-six, the knowledge he had amassed won him universal respect. He went to Poland, where King Kasimir put him in command of all Germans serving in Poland. After six years in Poland he joined the administration of Brandenburg-Prussia, where he held a number of high positions." The time after 1800 slowly saw the rise of the concept of nation vs. nation, language vs language. We still see this today when people take sides in historical debates and blame one nation over the other, as if history is black and white. Regarding the partition - the German Assembly of March 31, 1848 proclaimed that it was “the sacred duty of the German people to work with all their might for the reconstitution of the Polish kingdom in order to compensate for the injustice wrought by the partition.”.

fch42 3y ago

Strong words ... I for one inplied (and stated) only two things in my posting: 1. The "Polish Partitions" were not unique nor exceptional "for their time". Predatory behaviour by states in Europe has other examples contemporary to the partitions. 2. The aggressive nationalism, not the least by (but also not exclusively by) Germany wasn't a driver of the Polish Partitions, nor did these cause it. The latter is at least rather obvious from mere timing - "Germany" didn't exist, and while the two then-largest/then-most-powerful Prussia/Austria participated in it, the largest (by far) part of the German populace was simply unaffected and indifferent. For, say, a Hannoverian, what happened in England or Holland was likely far more interesting, and had a far more direct impact on their lifes, than what happened in Poland. It's absolutely not an excuse for what happened later, especially not for Germany going down a deep dark path. Did the Polish partitions cause "imperialistic nationalism" ? I'm not sure. Poland got a bad deal from those near-200 years without statehood, agreed. There were a lot of other factors in play then, though, and the world, not even Europe, exclusively revolves around "what happened to Poland", "what Germany did", "what France did" or "what the Church did". If only the history of the world were so trivial, and so objectively to assess. The only thing, really, we can do today is to stand by "Never Again!". To stand against breeding resentment. For fairness. It's not always easy.

keiferski 3y ago
Again, you don't seem to have much historical knowledge of the situation and instead are pushing some kind of German superiority propaganda, as suggested by your other comments. I suggest reading more about how Prussia (and Russia) deliberately sought to eradicate Polish culture and the Polish language, long before the Nazis, starting here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_during_the_Partitions https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation_of_Poles_durin... The rest of your comment is just hand-waving, wishy-washy nonsense that lacks any sort of coherent thesis, probably because you're indirectly trying to argue that Germany is superior to Poland, which is obvious, again, because of your blatantly misleading comments throughout this thread. P.S: you forgot to log out of your alt account when replying to me. Hilarious that you replied to your own comment (as as michael9423) with "Excellent contribution."
- fch42 3y ago
  I have no alt account. And I object to the accusation that I push any sort of "German Superiority". That way lies utter evil.

michael9423 3y ago

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (not Poland) was partitioned because it consisted of so many different cultures, had massive conflicts within (Targowica Confederation, the Polish nobility fought back against the constitution, causing the second and third partition), and fell prey to more powerful "progressive" powers, which sadly worked to put an end to multi-ethnic states in Europe. No one tried to destroy the Polish culture, people or language. Rather, it was the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that got destroyed. In 1815, most of the eastern parts of this Commonwealth stayed with Russia - as no one there spoke Polish, and the concept of the congress of Vienna was to separate people by their nation. Today, some Poles even hate the Lithuanians, and vice versa. In the territories claimed by Prussia, there was a significant German population. The bourgeoisie of the cities of West Prussia, especially those of the old Hanseatic cities like Danzig, had always been predominantly German-speaking. The areas claimed by Russia were dominated by Greek-Orthodox Ukrainians and Catholic Lithuanians. Thinking in simplistic terms of good and bad, right and wrong, is not helpful if you want to understand history. Empires fought with each other all the time, that's not the issue. The issue is that with nationalism, common people were suddenly made to identify with the struggle of their rulers and were made to hate common people (civilians) of other nations. It was a new idea that a people have to be represented by a nation and have to live in a geographically defined region without people of other cultures. Marion Dönhof was the most internationally respected journalist in post-war Germany, she directly participated in the resistance against Hitler, and studied history, especially the history of her own German and Polish ancestors, for years, while studying at a university in Switzerland. She discovered that before the rise of nationalism, german and polish people were cordial to each other and there was friendship. One of her ancestors was appointed by the Polish King: "When Ahasverus Lehndorff returned home at the age of twenty-six, the knowledge he had amassed won him universal respect. He went to Poland, where King Kasimir put him in command of all Germans serving in Poland. After six years in Poland he joined the administration of Brandenburg-Prussia, where he held a number of high positions." The time after 1800 slowly saw the rise of the concept of nation vs. nation, language vs language. We still see this today when people take sides in historical debates and blame one nation over the other, as if history is black and white. Regarding the partition - the German Assembly of March 31, 1848 proclaimed that it was “the sacred duty of the German people to work with all their might for the reconstitution of the Polish kingdom in order to compensate for the injustice wrought by the partition.”.