4 ms·

It is true under international law though.

by pydry 3y ago

candiodari 3y ago
[flagged]
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  > We're talking about muslims here. EVERY SQUARE CM they inhabit is conquered land. Islam "was spread through the sword". Are you for real?
  - rendall 3y ago
    Every square cm is an exaggeration. Malaysia and Indonesia in my understanding accepted Islam largely through peaceful trading contacts. The Levant in particular, however, was conquered militarily and Arabized by a succession of Muslim conquests: Rashidun Caliphate (632–661) Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) Fatimid Caliphate (909–1171) Ayyubid Dynasty (1174–1260) Mamluk Sultanate (1250–1517) Ottoman Empire (1517–1918) Where there is overlap, they ruled different parts of the area. Personally, I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      There were local Palestinian magnates of sone authority in the 16th - 18th centuries CE
      - selimthegrim 3y ago
        *some
    - racional 2y ago
      I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard. The folks who first brought up this "prior indigenous claim" business were the early Zionists of course. The pre-1897 inhabitants didn't have to "claim" any special rights because they were already there (give or take some forced migration within the Ottoman empire), and not trying to expand into any new territory they hadn't been occupying in living memory -- and so had nothing to justify or explain. Anyway it's all moot because the earliest known inhabitants in the region were not Jews in any recognizable sense, but predominantly the Canaanites and other bronze age cultures. Whose presence predates any traces of the Israelite culture by 2000+ years. And who were likely the primary genetic reservoir for both Palestinians and Jews as they are currently known, via significant mixtures with other groups from outside the region. The whole idea of attempting to adjudicate anything happening on the ground today on the basis of any of this history (or our current conception of it) is completely vacuous of course. As is this bizarre Blut und Boden reference that you're trying to asign to the Palestinians, of all people.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  Cyprus, Bougainville and Kashmir are all part of some transnational web? Cyprus and Kashmir are recent?
- dang 3y ago
  You've crossed into religious flamewar. That's not allowed here, regardless of which religion the issue is with. We ban accounts that do it repeatedly, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to ask you this once before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33220658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33220658. Not cool. No more of this on HN, please.

It is true under international law though.

by pydry 3y ago

It is true under international law though.

candiodari 3y ago

[flagged]

selimthegrim 3y ago
> We're talking about muslims here. EVERY SQUARE CM they inhabit is conquered land. Islam "was spread through the sword". Are you for real?
- rendall 3y ago
  Every square cm is an exaggeration. Malaysia and Indonesia in my understanding accepted Islam largely through peaceful trading contacts. The Levant in particular, however, was conquered militarily and Arabized by a succession of Muslim conquests: Rashidun Caliphate (632–661) Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258) Fatimid Caliphate (909–1171) Ayyubid Dynasty (1174–1260) Mamluk Sultanate (1250–1517) Ottoman Empire (1517–1918) Where there is overlap, they ruled different parts of the area. Personally, I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    There were local Palestinian magnates of sone authority in the 16th - 18th centuries CE
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      *some
  - racional 2y ago
    I think the idea of prior indigenous claim is counter productive, but since it has been introduced by Palestinians as a kind of volksgemeinschaft, blut und boden, Jews would have prior claim by that standard. The folks who first brought up this "prior indigenous claim" business were the early Zionists of course. The pre-1897 inhabitants didn't have to "claim" any special rights because they were already there (give or take some forced migration within the Ottoman empire), and not trying to expand into any new territory they hadn't been occupying in living memory -- and so had nothing to justify or explain. Anyway it's all moot because the earliest known inhabitants in the region were not Jews in any recognizable sense, but predominantly the Canaanites and other bronze age cultures. Whose presence predates any traces of the Israelite culture by 2000+ years. And who were likely the primary genetic reservoir for both Palestinians and Jews as they are currently known, via significant mixtures with other groups from outside the region. The whole idea of attempting to adjudicate anything happening on the ground today on the basis of any of this history (or our current conception of it) is completely vacuous of course. As is this bizarre Blut und Boden reference that you're trying to asign to the Palestinians, of all people.
selimthegrim 3y ago
Cyprus, Bougainville and Kashmir are all part of some transnational web? Cyprus and Kashmir are recent?
dang 3y ago
You've crossed into religious flamewar. That's not allowed here, regardless of which religion the issue is with. We ban accounts that do it repeatedly, so please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to ask you this once before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33220658 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33220658. Not cool. No more of this on HN, please.