4 ms·

Yes, we've all heard [0] and probably agreed with the person Mitchell plays, but the cost of bollards is actually really low. I can buy concrete hemispherical b

Yes, we've all heard [0] and probably agreed with the person Mitchell plays, but the cost of bollards is actually really low. I can buy concrete hemispherical bollards for less that $20 a piece. Let's make the total installation cost $50 per bollard. How many bollards does a 7/11 parking need? [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYyxvM85zU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqYyxvM85zU

olalonde 2y ago
Many areas in Americas cannot even afford sidewalks...
- TheCoelacanth 2y ago
  If you can't afford sidewalks, you can't afford roads.
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    By that logic, most of Europe (I've driven in Ireland, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, and Poland) can't afford roads. There aren't sidewalks everywhere.
    - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
      They can afford them, they just choose not to prioritize them.
  - mst 2y ago
    In urban areas, yes. In farm country, not really. Places in between are debatable - and as an inveterate pedestrian who's never learned to drive, I'd tend to be in favour of many of the places in between having sidewalks. But still, a blanket "you can't afford roads" is a bit much.
pixxel 2y ago
You haven’t included consultation fees, planning fees, backroom bidding markups, unions, pensions etc. What it costs you to do the job isn’t the reality of it, sadly.
- dazc 2y ago
  Aside from the cost of physically digging a hole, moving the spoil, pouring concrete, placing temporary barriers around the works and so on.
vel0city 2y ago
I'd love to see a source for those $20 bollards.
- orthoxerox 2y ago
  https://monolit-gbi.ru/zhelezobeton/ogranichiteli-dvizheniya/ https://monolit-gbi.ru/zhelezobeton/ogranichiteli-dvizheniya...
  - vel0city 2y ago
    These are not the kinds of bollards discussed in the article. Lots of cars going at any kind of speed could cross over a lot of these, as these are like 7" (200mm) tall. An F-150 has over 8" of ground clearance from the factory. It would drive over these without even noticing it. Bollards like in the article are usually a few feet tall. Like, 30-40" tall, like 800+mm tall. Note these are literally just the hemispheres, not any of the related mounting equipment. For these to actually be useful at stopping cars, you'll then want additional mounting equipment. So its not really $20 anyways for these things which as mentioned aren't even going to be very useful at stopping any cars. Finally, shipping from Russia to the US is probably pretty expensive and difficult these days.
    - orthoxerox 2y ago
      1) There are multiple sizes there, some are up to 1.5 feet tall 2) F-150 being considered a reasonable car is a whole another problem 3) They aren't there to protect against speeding cars, but to delineate parking lots and other similar places where a car might suddenly hit you 4) For the same reason they aren't usually fixed to the ground, they function as 100kg paperweights absorbing the car's momentum 5) Finally, I don't suggest importing them, but I don't have American concrete plant websites handy and I don't expect the economy of casting concrete hemispheres to be that different across countries.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        1) Up to 1.5' is still pretty short for a normal bollard in the US. As mentioned they're usually at least 30-32" (sometimes even 40") not 18". 2) Ok, but we shouldn't design our safety infrastructure based on some hypothetical, we should base it off the actual realities of the spaces the equipment will be operating in. 3) So essentially just those little parking stop blocks, not actual bollards. 4) 100kg isn't going to do much to stop a 1,300kg vehicle going even 20km/h. You think two people are going to stop a car going that fast? The car will just keep moving after hitting one of these, assuming it doesn't just go right over it. 5) You really don't think there's a difference in export/import valuations internationally or that manufacturing costs differ between countries? A chunk of concrete made in Russia has vastly different economics from a chunk of concrete made in Germany from a chunk of concrete made in the US. For example, a small parking stop block in the US costs like $60+, before delivery costs. https://www.nitterhousemasonry.com/our-products/concrete-parking-stop-blocks/ https://www.nitterhousemasonry.com/our-products/concrete-par... Here's an example of an actual concrete bollard sold in the US. Starting at $835/ea. Note these have a hollow core; they're kind of intended to be put on to a metal post embedded in the actual concrete because in an actual collision with a moving car the car would just push these out of the way. So really this is $835, after spending almost a thousand dollars on the metal post solidly integrated into the concrete slab below. https://www.belson.com/Round-Concrete-Security-Bollards https://www.belson.com/Round-Concrete-Security-Bollards An example of the kind of post these would slip over: (only $2,800USD if you buy 50-99!) https://www.reliance-foundry.com/shop/bollard/crash-rated/r-1009-04-sm-bollard https://www.reliance-foundry.com/shop/bollard/crash-rated/r-... These (or the cheaper ~$1,000 ones) are the kinds of bollards 7/11 would be installing in front of their stores to protect customers. Which, comparing $2,800USD to $20USD, you can see why I had skepticism. There's ~9,400 7/11 locations in the US. Lets say they install 6 bollards per location, and they go with the about $1,000 option. That's ~$56 million in just the costs of the bollards, without factoring in delivery to 9,400 sites. Also without factoring in any of the labor to install them, or the other material costs like the new concrete for the pad they're embedding into or the concrete filling the post. And the material cost for these bollards are cheap compared to paying the people to actually plan them, source them, install them, paint them, and inspect them. So realistically I'd imagine it would cost 7/11 probably at least a couple hundred million dollars to just install six new bollards at every one of their US locations.

olalonde 2y ago

Many areas in Americas cannot even afford sidewalks...

TheCoelacanth 2y ago
If you can't afford sidewalks, you can't afford roads.
- devilbunny 2y ago
  By that logic, most of Europe (I've driven in Ireland, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, and Poland) can't afford roads. There aren't sidewalks everywhere.
  - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
    They can afford them, they just choose not to prioritize them.
- mst 2y ago
  In urban areas, yes. In farm country, not really. Places in between are debatable - and as an inveterate pedestrian who's never learned to drive, I'd tend to be in favour of many of the places in between having sidewalks. But still, a blanket "you can't afford roads" is a bit much.

pixxel 2y ago

You haven’t included consultation fees, planning fees, backroom bidding markups, unions, pensions etc. What it costs you to do the job isn’t the reality of it, sadly.

dazc 2y ago
Aside from the cost of physically digging a hole, moving the spoil, pouring concrete, placing temporary barriers around the works and so on.

vel0city 2y ago

I'd love to see a source for those $20 bollards.

orthoxerox 2y ago
https://monolit-gbi.ru/zhelezobeton/ogranichiteli-dvizheniya/ https://monolit-gbi.ru/zhelezobeton/ogranichiteli-dvizheniya...
- vel0city 2y ago
  These are not the kinds of bollards discussed in the article. Lots of cars going at any kind of speed could cross over a lot of these, as these are like 7" (200mm) tall. An F-150 has over 8" of ground clearance from the factory. It would drive over these without even noticing it. Bollards like in the article are usually a few feet tall. Like, 30-40" tall, like 800+mm tall. Note these are literally just the hemispheres, not any of the related mounting equipment. For these to actually be useful at stopping cars, you'll then want additional mounting equipment. So its not really $20 anyways for these things which as mentioned aren't even going to be very useful at stopping any cars. Finally, shipping from Russia to the US is probably pretty expensive and difficult these days.
  - orthoxerox 2y ago
    1) There are multiple sizes there, some are up to 1.5 feet tall 2) F-150 being considered a reasonable car is a whole another problem 3) They aren't there to protect against speeding cars, but to delineate parking lots and other similar places where a car might suddenly hit you 4) For the same reason they aren't usually fixed to the ground, they function as 100kg paperweights absorbing the car's momentum 5) Finally, I don't suggest importing them, but I don't have American concrete plant websites handy and I don't expect the economy of casting concrete hemispheres to be that different across countries.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      1) Up to 1.5' is still pretty short for a normal bollard in the US. As mentioned they're usually at least 30-32" (sometimes even 40") not 18". 2) Ok, but we shouldn't design our safety infrastructure based on some hypothetical, we should base it off the actual realities of the spaces the equipment will be operating in. 3) So essentially just those little parking stop blocks, not actual bollards. 4) 100kg isn't going to do much to stop a 1,300kg vehicle going even 20km/h. You think two people are going to stop a car going that fast? The car will just keep moving after hitting one of these, assuming it doesn't just go right over it. 5) You really don't think there's a difference in export/import valuations internationally or that manufacturing costs differ between countries? A chunk of concrete made in Russia has vastly different economics from a chunk of concrete made in Germany from a chunk of concrete made in the US. For example, a small parking stop block in the US costs like $60+, before delivery costs. https://www.nitterhousemasonry.com/our-products/concrete-parking-stop-blocks/ https://www.nitterhousemasonry.com/our-products/concrete-par... Here's an example of an actual concrete bollard sold in the US. Starting at $835/ea. Note these have a hollow core; they're kind of intended to be put on to a metal post embedded in the actual concrete because in an actual collision with a moving car the car would just push these out of the way. So really this is $835, after spending almost a thousand dollars on the metal post solidly integrated into the concrete slab below. https://www.belson.com/Round-Concrete-Security-Bollards https://www.belson.com/Round-Concrete-Security-Bollards An example of the kind of post these would slip over: (only $2,800USD if you buy 50-99!) https://www.reliance-foundry.com/shop/bollard/crash-rated/r-1009-04-sm-bollard https://www.reliance-foundry.com/shop/bollard/crash-rated/r-... These (or the cheaper ~$1,000 ones) are the kinds of bollards 7/11 would be installing in front of their stores to protect customers. Which, comparing $2,800USD to $20USD, you can see why I had skepticism. There's ~9,400 7/11 locations in the US. Lets say they install 6 bollards per location, and they go with the about $1,000 option. That's ~$56 million in just the costs of the bollards, without factoring in delivery to 9,400 sites. Also without factoring in any of the labor to install them, or the other material costs like the new concrete for the pad they're embedding into or the concrete filling the post. And the material cost for these bollards are cheap compared to paying the people to actually plan them, source them, install them, paint them, and inspect them. So realistically I'd imagine it would cost 7/11 probably at least a couple hundred million dollars to just install six new bollards at every one of their US locations.