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I just wish that people actually would do something about the (far worse imo) requirement to give the game kernel access for anti cheat. But nobody gives a shit
by bigstrat2003 3y ago
I just wish that people actually would do something about the (far worse imo) requirement to give the game kernel access for anti cheat. But nobody gives a shit about that, so they're never going to change it. It's not really acceptable in my opinion for any game to have these rootkits, but it's especially bad for a co-op game where you're going to be playing most of the time with people you know.
- nirav72 3y agoI can't believe this hasn't been a bigger issue. Other than a handful of comments on steam about this when the game was first released, most people have either ignored this or don't care.
- zik 3y agoMost people don't really understand what it is or how completely it destroys your computer's security mechanisms.
- simianparrot 3y agoThere’s a lot of posts about the anticheat and the issues it causes players on the steam forum, dozens if not hundreds a day still. But you’re right; enough people don’t care so the developers do nothing. Interesting side effect of this has been that it has driven a substantial amount of people to play the game under a Linux distro using Valve’s proton wrapper for Windows emulation (same as is used on Steam Deck) because the anticheat version for Linux doesn’t have the rootkit element. Conversely most of the cheaters that this system is designed to stop seem to also use Linux, making the entire endeavour pointless from the developer’s side, yet they remain adamant in keeping a system that harms many and doesn’t even prevent cheating anyway…
- int_19h 3y agoAnti-cheat has been socially normalized for PC gaming for a very long time now.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoWelcome to gaming drama. Just like everything else, it's all about timing and vitality. That's why so much legal stuff that actually makes gaming worse gets through. Law isn't sexy, it's not instant. But yea, "victory for gaming" that they don't need to log into an account... As they log into an account to boot the game up. But TWO accounts, absolutely not. Unless it's Call of Duty. Or Diablo. Or Assassin's Creed (which isn't even an online game?). I can't even feel sorry. They bring it all on themselves.
- pseudo0 3y agoAn account that you can only have in 73 countries, while the game was originally sold in ~190. The PSN ToS is pretty awful, but what got a lot of attention was Sony just retroactively making the game unplayable for over half the globe. Yes, you can lie and give them a fake address, but in the ToS they can demand ID to prove your identity and location.
- bluefirebrand 3y agoWhat's worse is they updated the steam sales regions, and they weren't even going to sell it in all 73 countries that PSN is allowed in They marked something like 15 countries to allow sales, and blocked the rest. Just completely mismanaged the entire way through
- arprocter 3y agoWhen I moved from one country to another, PSN wouldn't allow me to pay for things with the card issued by my new bank - I ended up having to open a new Sony account I'm not sure if things are the same now - that happened in the era of transition from PS3 to 4
- theshrike79 3y agoA single cheater can ruin the experience for everyone. There have been issues with people exploiting bugs for infinite grenades for example. And there is no way to report players for that either. Also not all of us have friends who play HD2, so we don't play "most of the time with people you know"...
- digging 3y ago> And there is no way to report players for that either. So... what if there was?
- theshrike79 3y agoThen the situation would be less bad. But currently with whatever anti-cheat they're using the amount of cheaters is practically non-existent. I haven't personally seen any weirdness. A friend of mine managed to get a screen recording of two people doing the grenade exploit before it was fixed.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoI didn't say everyone plays coop games with friends. But it is the overwhelming majority in my experience.
- Timshel 3y agoDon't know if you are still playing on windows the OS itself is now basically a spyware, so if people don't care about that a potential rootkit is not much. More importantly imo is that the game is working well in the flatpak distribution of Steam.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoOh trust me, I ditched Windows a long time ago. I keep a Win10 install around for occasional games which refuse to work under Proton, but it's very rare I use it. A few years back when they got caught "testing" ads in Windows Explorer, I switched.
- rascul 3y agoAre there alternatives for anti cheat that don't require as much access?
- viraptor 3y agoI don't know if you can solve everything in an alternative way, but after watching the drama in Tarkov last year, I think the game companies are leaving a lot of low hanging fruit. For example people who can see through walls will track someone coming from behind the wall, before they can be seen. The server has the record of it. In the specific case of Tarkov, people got more information about other players by pointing at their wallhacked silhouettes. Again, the server knows. So did external people have to make videos about "the wiggle" to cause any change? There's so much that could be done through basic behaviour analysis and injecting false data. Yet, instead of that, games just come loaded with anti-cheats that barely work.
- GaggiX 3y agoThe new VAC ban wave has been achieved using machine learning on the server side.
- verandaguy 3y ago100% this. VAC remains one of the more effective anti-cheats out there while retaining relatively few privileges on the client machines. A gaming youtuber, 3kliksphilip, made a 10-minute rundown of the state of VAC and where it may be going from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DHMAwAeRMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DHMAwAeRMA. I'm unaffiliated with the channel. The video front-loads some information that many readers here will already be familiar with (along the lines of "what's a kernel and who decided to put so many rings on it") but overall it's a nice light watch.
- mrguyorama 3y agoVAC is laughable. The state of cheating in CounterStrike has always been one of the worst games in the industry. VAC doesn't even stop blatant spin botters. This is especially bad because in CounterStrike, a "game" is a one hour commitment with the same group of people, and most people near the higher levels of rankings report getting a match with a cheater in about 1/10 matches or more. It's so bad, there are MULTIPLE third party companies whose entire product is "we install a rootkit style anticheat software so you can actually play counterstrike" like Faceit. Counterstrike official servers are unplayable because of cheating. I mean, christ, Warowl literally had a video last week about how it's impossible to play the new counterstrike because of cheating! Philip should definitely be aware of that situation. Holding it up as some sort of pillar of achievement is absurd.
- shepherdjerred 3y agoNobody cares about it, unfortunately. League of Legends is starting to add it as a requirement. https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/24169857932435-Riot-Vanguard-FAQ-League-of-Legends https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/artic...
- bigstrat2003 3y agoI know. :( I care, obviously, but there are Dozens of Us (TM) so nothing will ever change. Most people simply do not see it as an issue to begin with, and even those who care somewhat think it's an acceptable tradeoff.
- refracture 3y agoThis is the real reason I’m not getting this game, linking accounts isn’t anywhere near as problematic yet nobody cares.
- bavell 3y agoIt's the one thing preventing me from buying the game :(
- chankstein38 3y agoEspecially when the anti-cheat has a tendency to cause BSoDs. For a while the anti-cheat that came with Fortnite caused my machine to BSoD over and over. I googled and a ton of people were having the same problem. There didn't seem to be a good solution just the standard "Try reinstalling everything" advice. At one point the situation caused my windows installation to corrupt and I had to completely reinstall. It's ridiculous.
- gavindean90 3y agoI’m curious, did the reinstall everything approach work in the end?
- chankstein38 3y agoIt did but it wasn't a choice. The system just wouldn't boot. Repairs didn't work, trying to replace files didn't work. The only thing that would was a wipe and reinstall of the system drive.