11 ms·
Few questioned Ukraine's decision to ban RT's operations. This doesn't seem terribly different - Al Jazeera has very deep ties to Hamas, the enemy Israel is at
by dlubarov 2y ago
Few questioned Ukraine's decision to ban RT's operations. This doesn't seem terribly different - Al Jazeera has very deep ties to Hamas, the enemy Israel is at war with, and has arguably been acting as their mouthpiece for propaganda.
- kragen 2y agoi did and do. banning your citizens from reading the 'propaganda' of your enemy reduces them to subjects and foments further armed conflict. it's also a power invariably used to avoid accountability for petty corruption such as beria's garden full of young, beautiful women
- twixfel 2y ago[flagged]
- kragen 2y agoif it was abject shite nobody wanted to read or watch, they wouldn't bother to ban it
- _djo_ 2y agoPropaganda is still dangerous, and a country at war has no obligation to allow the country it is at war with to continue to openly spread it. Banning RT makes sense in that context. I don't see the banning of Al Jazeera in the same light, as it's not like it's a Hamas-run outlet.
- twixfel 2y agoA country at war has no moral or legal obligation to publish its enemy’s propaganda. This should be very obvious. And yes RT was always complete shite for gullible morons, though it is rather beside the point in this case actually. The British government had no moral obligation on free speech grounds to allow the spread of nazi propaganda in the United Kingdom during WW2, either. Again, obvious stuff.
- raxxorraxor 2y agoPropaganda in war times is very often directed at a domestic audience. Examples are stories like the Ghost of Kyiv on the "western side". There are examples on the Russian side too.
- ajsnigrutin 2y agoSure, but it's still lies. Somehow we act as if our lies are better than their lies.
- twixfel 2y agoYes: A lie to boost the morale of a country fighting a defensive war against a genocidal dictatorship is unambiguously a better lie than the lies of the genocidal dictatorship to rile up its populace to more effectively execute the genocidal war. My country lied to its populace during WW2 to boost morale in its fight against Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany lied to its populace to more effectively execute the holocaust. They are not the same. So it's true, not all lies are equally bad, hope that helps. Most learn that as children.
- ajsnigrutin 2y agoSo we should lie that israel is losing hard, so good morale brings more and more people to fight for hamas?
- twixfel 2y ago[flagged]
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago[flagged]
- 2y ago
- dTal 2y agoI would love to live in the universe where popularity was a good indicator of quality.
- ajsnigrutin 2y agoYes, they should read about how putin has only thre days of supplies left and not worry about the war, because it'll be over by the weekend. Oh wait, those articles were from 2022: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-food-weapons-shortage-ukraine-b2041181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-food-... Why not ban Independent too?
- twixfel 2y agoIt's arguably not propaganda to publish an article quoting a member of the Ukrainian military. It's even in the headline right there: "Ukraine military claims". If you think the output of RT and the Independent are indistinguishable then yeah I guess we just will never agree. Still, glad my country banned RT nevertheless. If the only downside is the odd anti-west tankie on HN crying about "hypocrisy", then, it's not so bad ;)
- ajsnigrutin 2y agoSo trust the propaganda side, don't verify and publish such propagnda? I mean... you can still not read RT, I don't know why you feel the need to forbid others from reading it? What if others want to ban something you wish to read? I mean...i'm glad you admit supporting censorship, but you can't complain then when some other country bans lgbt materials, harry potter, books on sexuality, books about satan, etc.
- twixfel 2y ago>So trust the propaganda side, don't verify and publish such propagnda? ? > What if others want to ban something you wish to read? Somethings things get banned even in democratic societies, that's never not been the case. Given that Russia is attacking Europe and has carried out numerous executions of private citizens on European soil, I struggle to see why we are obliged to let them air their propaganda in our countries. Maybe suck cuckholdery is appealing to you, but not to me or us. > but you can't complain then when some other country bans lgbt materials, harry potter, books on sexuality, books about satan, etc I don't complain. Russia is a shithole, we know this, it's established fact at this point, if it wants to cry about Harry Potter and LGBT rather than finally install toilets in peoples houses and help brings its people into the 21st century, then that's their choice. But invading a sovereign country like Ukraine and committing genocide against Ukrainians, that's not really acceptable, sorry.
- kristiandupont 2y agoIs the fact that you put "propaganda" in quotation marks an indication that you don't consider RT to be that, or that you don't think propaganda even exists?
- AlecSchueler 2y agoI think the point is that one side's propaganda is another side's information.
- kristiandupont 2y agoAs in "there is no such thing as true or false, only opinion"?
- AlecSchueler 2y agoIn a post truth society, certainly. If you can't verify it yourself it's all a leap of faith.
- mistermann 2y ago"Verifying it yourself" is often if not usually also a leap of faith, because how shall a single mind error check itself in a confirmably reliable manner, especially if it's received no specialized training in the domain?
- AlecSchueler 2y agoIt comes down to the relative stretch of the leap you take.
- mistermann 2y agoAnd to know that, you need (just for starters) a means of discovering what is True...so you are back to the problem I noted. Luckily, all of this complexity can be wallpapered over by cultural conditioning, making the problem essentially vanish (depending on the frame of reference one is observing from, or if one even knows what that means).
- OfficeChad 2y ago[dead]
- dTal 2y agoAn important distinction must be drawn between suppressing distribution, and "banning your citizens from reading". In fact it is not illegal to possess or read RT content, nor even for that matter to share it on social media. It is not secret. All that has been done is to remove a propagandist with a megaphone from the town square.
- int_19h 2y agoIt should be noted that Ukraine has banned far more than just RT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Ukraine#Banned_journalists,_media,_websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Ukrain...