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in NYC, I don't worry about getting hit by a car; I worry about getting hit by bicycles/bicyclists. Most NYC streets are one-way, but I have to look both ways b

in NYC, I don't worry about getting hit by a car; I worry about getting hit by bicycles/bicyclists. Most NYC streets are one-way, but I have to look both ways before stepping off of a curb.

gpm 2y ago
In NYC in 2022 (the most recent version of this report) - 116 pedestrians were killed in crashes with motor vehicles - 15 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles - 3 pedestrians were killed in crashes with bicyclists - 3 bicyclists were killed in crashes with bicyclists (unclear if that includes bicycle-pedestrian interactions or only bicycle bicycle, I suspect the former) - 1 pedestrian was killed in a crash with a "other motorized (not a motor vehicle)" This isn't isolated to the outskirts or something. In every borough there were > 10x the number of pedestrian fatalities from crashes with motor vehicles as crashes with bicycles. The same general trend holds for injuries though I trust the data a bit less since I can imagine injuries going unreported. I'd suggest that unless you have very atypical habits that put you in conflict with bicycles very often and cars very rarely, you are worrying about the wrong thing. https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-data-report-2022.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-dat...
- alistairSH 2y ago
  I have a feeling you’re both correct. Cars/trucks are absolutely more dangerous in a given interaction. But, the increased use of electric motorcycles/scooters on sidewalks is also leading to increased negative bike-pedestrian interactions. US e-bike rules are a totally inconsistent dumpster fire. The “standard” 3 tier rating allows class 3 e-bikes to travel at unsafe for sidewalk/path speeds (28mph), while also being in contradiction to many state’s moped/motor-scooterlaws. Yes, a pedal bike can also go 28mph, but very few people can actually go that fast where an e-bike can easily do so.
- ekimekim 2y ago
  > I'd suggest that unless you have very atypical habits that put you in conflict with bicycles very often and cars very rarely, you are worrying about the wrong thing. While you would be correct if only considering risk of death, this doesn't tell us anything about the incidence of non-fatal pedestrian-cyclist interactions and what the outcomes are. It would be perfectly rational to care more about cyclists if it was 100x more likely than a car crash and still carried a signifigant risk of injury, even if the risk of death is extremely low. To be clear I actually agree with you that cars are still likely the higher risk, just pointing out a limitation in your data.
  - gpm 2y ago
    See the linked pdf for data on non-fatal injuries, as I said in my original comment > The same general trend holds for injuries
    - ekimekim 2y ago
      ah I missed that, apologies.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  >In NYC in 2022... NYC encompasses a large area including Brooklyn, The Bronx and Queens, which have a wide variety of traffic situations. I'm talking about Midtown Manhattan where the roadways are a grid of wide avenues with synchronized lights and narrow perpendicular streets with slow traffic. I experience zero close calls with cars, and can time my crossing of the street (jaywalking) quite accurately. I have to dodge and weave and experience close calls with silent bicycles and high speed electrics all the time. I said what I have to worry about, and it is bicycles. (I am completely pro bike; I RIDE BIKES IN THE CITY ALL THE TIME; but I don't scare the bejeezus out of pedestrians; and when I ride "wrong way" (because who is going to go the long way around 2 long blocks and a short to get 1 block so) I am respectful and cede right of way to oncomers)
  - gpm 2y ago
    The data addresses this in part, to quote my original comment > In every borough there were > 10x the number of pedestrian fatalities from crashes with motor vehicles as crashes with bicycles. It doesn't break down Manhattan into pieces. Or it does, but there's a rather baffling omission of a "Between Motorized and Pedestrians" table. Still, considering that in all of Manhattan there was a single pedestrian killed by bicycle, we can be pretty sure that cars are the greater threat in every precinct. I don't doubt that cyclists could do better, and they certainly present some risk, but I think you're greatly underestimating the risk that cars present.

in NYC, I don't worry about getting hit by a car; I worry about getting hit by bicycles/bicyclists. Most NYC streets are one-way, but I have to look both ways before stepping off of a curb.

gpm 2y ago

In NYC in 2022 (the most recent version of this report) - 116 pedestrians were killed in crashes with motor vehicles - 15 bicyclists were killed in crashes with motor vehicles - 3 pedestrians were killed in crashes with bicyclists - 3 bicyclists were killed in crashes with bicyclists (unclear if that includes bicycle-pedestrian interactions or only bicycle bicycle, I suspect the former) - 1 pedestrian was killed in a crash with a "other motorized (not a motor vehicle)" This isn't isolated to the outskirts or something. In every borough there were > 10x the number of pedestrian fatalities from crashes with motor vehicles as crashes with bicycles. The same general trend holds for injuries though I trust the data a bit less since I can imagine injuries going unreported. I'd suggest that unless you have very atypical habits that put you in conflict with bicycles very often and cars very rarely, you are worrying about the wrong thing. https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-data-report-2022.pdf https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-dat...

alistairSH 2y ago
I have a feeling you’re both correct. Cars/trucks are absolutely more dangerous in a given interaction. But, the increased use of electric motorcycles/scooters on sidewalks is also leading to increased negative bike-pedestrian interactions. US e-bike rules are a totally inconsistent dumpster fire. The “standard” 3 tier rating allows class 3 e-bikes to travel at unsafe for sidewalk/path speeds (28mph), while also being in contradiction to many state’s moped/motor-scooterlaws. Yes, a pedal bike can also go 28mph, but very few people can actually go that fast where an e-bike can easily do so.
ekimekim 2y ago
> I'd suggest that unless you have very atypical habits that put you in conflict with bicycles very often and cars very rarely, you are worrying about the wrong thing. While you would be correct if only considering risk of death, this doesn't tell us anything about the incidence of non-fatal pedestrian-cyclist interactions and what the outcomes are. It would be perfectly rational to care more about cyclists if it was 100x more likely than a car crash and still carried a signifigant risk of injury, even if the risk of death is extremely low. To be clear I actually agree with you that cars are still likely the higher risk, just pointing out a limitation in your data.
- gpm 2y ago
  See the linked pdf for data on non-fatal injuries, as I said in my original comment > The same general trend holds for injuries
  - ekimekim 2y ago
    ah I missed that, apologies.
fsckboy 2y ago
>In NYC in 2022... NYC encompasses a large area including Brooklyn, The Bronx and Queens, which have a wide variety of traffic situations. I'm talking about Midtown Manhattan where the roadways are a grid of wide avenues with synchronized lights and narrow perpendicular streets with slow traffic. I experience zero close calls with cars, and can time my crossing of the street (jaywalking) quite accurately. I have to dodge and weave and experience close calls with silent bicycles and high speed electrics all the time. I said what I have to worry about, and it is bicycles. (I am completely pro bike; I RIDE BIKES IN THE CITY ALL THE TIME; but I don't scare the bejeezus out of pedestrians; and when I ride "wrong way" (because who is going to go the long way around 2 long blocks and a short to get 1 block so) I am respectful and cede right of way to oncomers)
- gpm 2y ago
  The data addresses this in part, to quote my original comment > In every borough there were > 10x the number of pedestrian fatalities from crashes with motor vehicles as crashes with bicycles. It doesn't break down Manhattan into pieces. Or it does, but there's a rather baffling omission of a "Between Motorized and Pedestrians" table. Still, considering that in all of Manhattan there was a single pedestrian killed by bicycle, we can be pretty sure that cars are the greater threat in every precinct. I don't doubt that cyclists could do better, and they certainly present some risk, but I think you're greatly underestimating the risk that cars present.