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>Israel's net favourability is down globally [1]. But there is zero evidence it's losing legitimacy; very few countries flipped sign. >zero evidence it's losin

>Israel's net favourability is down globally [1]. But there is zero evidence it's losing legitimacy; very few countries flipped sign. >zero evidence it's losing legitimacy zero? "Colombia nation cuts ties with Israel amid Columbia University protest"[0] Your judgment on this is rather shortsighted and there is more than enough evidence that israel is losing legitimacy. The people's opinion rarely turns into policy over night, even in democracies. I've observed the sentiments on this particular issue for more than a decade and I can tell you that I've never seen such insane amount of regular folks, from diverse backgrounds and political affiliations, who fearlessly speak truth about israel in a manner that would make Menachem Begin tremble in his grave. I'm observing Israeli accounts and hasbara efforts and it's evident, from the content they produce, that they fear losing legitimacy and are acting accordingly e.g. investing a lot of money into gerrymandering/astroturfing[1] Even dictators in the middle east, who are puppets of the US and Israel, are fearing of losing their own legitimacy because of what their own people perceive[2][3] as corrupt and subservient behavior to the empire. Those dictators are one arab spring away from getting brought to justice by their own people for their complicity in israel's genocide and they know it and they fear that. [0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/05/02/columbia-colombia-cuts-israel-ties-protest/73544284007 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2024/05/02/columbi... [1] https://x.com/5149jamesli/status/1783144486031495389 https://x.com/5149jamesli/status/1783144486031495389 [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/saudi-arabia-steps-up-gaza-arrests-as-israel-ties-edge-closer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/saudi-ara... [3] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery-in-support-of-israel-is-nothing-new/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Colombia nation cuts ties with Israel Ukraine has cut diplomatic ties with Russia; the Baltic states have gone almost as far [1]. That doesn't mean they deny Russia's legitimacy as a state. There has been zero change in recognition of Israel since October 7 [2]. (Belize and Bolivia also severed relations, by the way. And Turkey stopped trading. But again, very different from disagreement and denying legitimacy, and why I said practically zero diplomatic consequences, a threshold much lower than loss of legitimacy.) > more than enough evidence that israel is losing legitimacy Open to being convinced, but do you have a source? > I've never seen such insane amount of regular folks, from diverse backgrounds and political affiliations, who fearlessly speak truth about israel Plenty of batshit crazy stuff seems widespread on the internet. > they fear losing legitimacy Sure. They should. America fears China annexing Taiwan; that isn't evidence it's happening. > dictators in the middle east, who are puppets of the US and Israel, are fearing of losing their own legitimacy The ones who helped Israel repel Iran's attack? [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-blames-baltic-countries-severing-most-ties-2024-05-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-blames-baltic-co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_I...
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  >> more than enough evidence that israel is losing legitimacy >Open to being convinced, but do you have a source? A state's legitimacy hinges not only on diplomatic relations with other states but also significantly on public perception and global discourse. This is particularly evident in the case of Israel, where many now view it as a racist colonial entity which is a danger to israel's legitimacy. As I've stated before, your judgment on this seems to be extremely shortsighted, you may dismiss the countless of crucial events of the past months but israelis certainly don't, they speak of the existential threat of "delegitimization" of israel and they are fighting it tooth an nail[0]. Why would they so fiercely fight the "delegitimization" of israel if they didn't see it as a real & existential threat? >> I've never seen such insane amount of regular folks, from diverse backgrounds and political affiliations, who fearlessly speak truth about israel >Plenty of batshit crazy stuff seems widespread on the internet. Without "batshit crazy" people israel couldn't even survive, those "batshit crazy" evangelicals have immense influence on policy. Furthermore, your dismissal is a bit flippant, the people I've seen speak out are sensible & reasonable; people from whom I would have never expected to hear harsh truths about the zionist colonial project. >> they fear losing legitimacy >Sure. They should. America fears China annexing Taiwan; that isn't evidence it's happening. I don't think that is an adequate comparison. I'm not interested in writing an essay on how different those conflicts are, I'm pretty sure you know enough about that. >> dictators in the middle east, who are puppets of the US and Israel, are fearing of losing their own legitimacy >The ones who helped Israel repel Iran's attack? Yes, the article[1] I linked above literally mentions that and I really don't see how your point diminishes in any way what I've argued for. [0] The Diane and Guilford Foundation that grants this fellowship to you has as its stated mission "the prosperity and safety of Israel". Their grant focuses include "confronting the delegitimization of Israel" and to advance "Israel's geopolitical interests" https://x.com/birdelaire/status/1784413355236790382 https://x.com/birdelaire/status/1784413355236790382 [1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery-in-support-of-israel-is-nothing-new/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Israel is at risk of losing legitimacy. There is no evidence it is losing legitimacy. That’s an important difference.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Colombia nation cuts ties with Israel Ukraine has cut diplomatic ties with Russia; the Baltic states have gone almost as far [1]. That doesn't mean they deny Russia's legitimacy as a state. There has been zero change in recognition of Israel since October 7 [2]. (Belize and Bolivia also severed relations, by the way. And Turkey stopped trading. But again, very different from disagreement and denying legitimacy, and why I said practically zero diplomatic consequences, a threshold much lower than loss of legitimacy.) > more than enough evidence that israel is losing legitimacy Open to being convinced, but do you have a source? > I've never seen such insane amount of regular folks, from diverse backgrounds and political affiliations, who fearlessly speak truth about israel Plenty of batshit crazy stuff seems widespread on the internet. > they fear losing legitimacy Sure. They should. America fears China annexing Taiwan; that isn't evidence it's happening. > dictators in the middle east, who are puppets of the US and Israel, are fearing of losing their own legitimacy The ones who helped Israel repel Iran's attack? [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-blames-baltic-countries-severing-most-ties-2024-05-05/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-blames-baltic-co... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_I...

kelthuzad 2y ago
>> more than enough evidence that israel is losing legitimacy >Open to being convinced, but do you have a source? A state's legitimacy hinges not only on diplomatic relations with other states but also significantly on public perception and global discourse. This is particularly evident in the case of Israel, where many now view it as a racist colonial entity which is a danger to israel's legitimacy. As I've stated before, your judgment on this seems to be extremely shortsighted, you may dismiss the countless of crucial events of the past months but israelis certainly don't, they speak of the existential threat of "delegitimization" of israel and they are fighting it tooth an nail[0]. Why would they so fiercely fight the "delegitimization" of israel if they didn't see it as a real & existential threat? >> I've never seen such insane amount of regular folks, from diverse backgrounds and political affiliations, who fearlessly speak truth about israel >Plenty of batshit crazy stuff seems widespread on the internet. Without "batshit crazy" people israel couldn't even survive, those "batshit crazy" evangelicals have immense influence on policy. Furthermore, your dismissal is a bit flippant, the people I've seen speak out are sensible & reasonable; people from whom I would have never expected to hear harsh truths about the zionist colonial project. >> they fear losing legitimacy >Sure. They should. America fears China annexing Taiwan; that isn't evidence it's happening. I don't think that is an adequate comparison. I'm not interested in writing an essay on how different those conflicts are, I'm pretty sure you know enough about that. >> dictators in the middle east, who are puppets of the US and Israel, are fearing of losing their own legitimacy >The ones who helped Israel repel Iran's attack? Yes, the article[1] I linked above literally mentions that and I really don't see how your point diminishes in any way what I've argued for. [0] The Diane and Guilford Foundation that grants this fellowship to you has as its stated mission "the prosperity and safety of Israel". Their grant focuses include "confronting the delegitimization of Israel" and to advance "Israel's geopolitical interests" https://x.com/birdelaire/status/1784413355236790382 https://x.com/birdelaire/status/1784413355236790382 [1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery-in-support-of-israel-is-nothing-new/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240415-jordans-treachery...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Israel is at risk of losing legitimacy. There is no evidence it is losing legitimacy. That’s an important difference.