4 ms·

What does proportion have to do with anything? You can't actually expect a country at war to supply the enemy with ammunition, period. I don't expect Hamas to a

• loceng 2y ago
  There's irony and arrogance in much of what you say, especially "When the facts are being twisted and misinformation endangers human life, there is a responsibility to get it right or shut it down." What if that actually applies to you and what you believe, that perhaps you've been successfully been trained with misinformation and twisted truth? What if in fact there is a genocide going on but the population who Netanyahu needs to continue to support him has had propaganda used on them for so long that it's manufactured consent for a genocide - that some people are misled to believe it isn't. These conversations need to happen but they haven't for obvious reasons - and it's always going to be the bad actor who's wanting the truth to be hidden; perhaps exhibit A for this is Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire - while publicly discussing doing a debate between Ben and Candace Owens - they behind the scenes were seeking and received a gag order on Candace; please of video overviews of this: Breaking Points (4:43 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1Jhed1-iA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R1Jhed1-iA Mark Dice (17 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9nrRH2WeUo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9nrRH2WeUo Glenn Greenwald (23 mins): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOh3GJxes28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOh3GJxes28 etc. The problem is most people don't stay engaged in the discussion long enough, and the ideological mob side knee-jerk reacts away to be dismissive in anger-rage and discuss - short-circuiting their critical thinking, perhaps the cognitive dissonance is too painful as well, denial of the possibility of how could your precious government do such a horrific thing?
  • dakom 2y ago
    What's the irony, what's the arrogance? You can't just say "what if" without proof (I mean, say whatever you want.. but..) Back up your accusations with simple explanations please, I am not going to go watch 30 minutes of video to suss out your evidence. Israel is the host country to the second largest Palestinian population on earth. I went to the Dead Sea the other day and passed by dozens of Palestinian cars on the road (not Israeli Arabs, which are another huge population- the Palestinians have different license plates). If the goal of Israel was genocide, the number of civilian casualties would be FAR FAR greater than they are. I know programmers aren't necessarily mathematicians, but come on people, this is kindergarten stuff. Look up the number of civilian casualties in America's fight against ISIS. Hamas goes out of their way to use civilians as human shields. Just yesterday Israel had to try and carefully distinguish as a dual UNRWA / Hamas headquarters was put out of commission. The narrative that Israel is commiting genocide in this war is so ridiculously stupid, a failure of basic math skills a 5 year old could do, the only way to believe it is to be horribly misinformed, or to want to believe it. Al Jazeera incites violence by knowingly pushing misinformation on an audience who wants to believe it, to fan the flames of hate. On Holocaust day especially, it's insane to expect Israel to provide resources for blood libels to her enemy in times of war.
    • loceng 2y ago
      So, I'm/we're just supposed to accept your narrative "without proof" but "the other side" requires proof which there is plenty of - but you're clearly not going to be willing to spend the time to read/watch it? Re: "If the goal of Israel was genocide, the number of civilian casualties would be FAR FAR greater than they are." I've heard this fallacious argument regularly - one of the many counter-points the mob is trained with to parrot - stopping them from critically thinking deeper, and keeping the mob relatively done not teaching them anything to keep them in the dark: If they weren't trying to deceive you then they should be teaching you about the broader scope/context of the situation, instead of narrowing-fixating your view on such a shallow metric. E.g. Current bad actors in Israeli government are very aware of the need to maintain public support, support of a weaponized mob to apply distributed "peer pressure" as part of the censorship-suppression-narrative control apparatus that exists; thank God Elon Musk existed to be able to pay a easy $44 billion to take that weaponized media channel out of the hands of censorious bad actors - so even if arguably more lies spread, also arguably it's more likely more truth will also spread. Re: "this is kindergarten stuff" So welcome to my kindergarten class, unless you already realized the broader context that Israel needs to maintain enough public support so the funding tap (that Netanyahu also has bragged on video that he will "milk America dry") to Israel/IDF continues? It doesn't seem you're taking into account that perceptions matter though, even though you believe the side that there is a massive global uprising against the actions of this current Israeli government. Have you ever written out to extrapolate, let's say reverse engineer, how you'd potentially get to this point from a historical point? E.g. we could start at the point Israel was formed as a state, "given" 55% of the Palestinian land - which initially was made up of Arabs and Jews peacefully living together, all of them in that region were called Palestinians - not just the Arabs; I've heard estimates the population of Jewish people in the region was anywhere from 3-7%, being given a highly disproportionate 55% of the land. And then when a "legitimate" war broke out, as was expected to happen - Israel being funded by the military-industrial complex and the captured coffers of and for the pillaging of the United States of America - they of course won being outgunned, and took 70%+ of the land. Do you know yet or even believe that Netanyahu funded Hamas? As unbelievable as that sounds, it's documented - along with the purpose. Netanyahu is also very aware of and has spoken about on video about 5th generation warfare - psychological warfare tactics including but not limited to subversion. Are you aware of any of that, and what's your take on it? Netanyahu from a fairly young age also has had the stance that should not be a two-state solution, that Palestinians don't have a right to a state: does that make it more or less likely that he'd be willing to do unwarranted harm against them to support his fundamental beliefs? P.S. If you're not willing to actually invest time into seeking out the truth, you're highly likely an ideologue and indoctrinated into narratives you've been trained with over many decades. Most ideologues are more lazy than not - refuse to engage at any depth - and then cite things generally, if they put in that much effort because they feel the need to be the last one to respond usually ; or whether that is because they "don't have time" - the consequences are the same. So what's your time limit for video clips? 2 minutes? Do you think you can learn an alternative perspective without going into any depth about it, or spending say 20+ hours studying what the other side. Obviously I'm not going to waste more time providing you more links to videos or articles, if even the ~5 minute video is too long for you. You're also falling for the propaganda that this is a war, it's not: they are an occupied land, recognized by international law and they are required by international law to have a higher duty of care for those they occupy; if you want to claim they're not occupied, then how did Israel turn off their water, electricity, etc. the moment they wanted to? If this conversation did actually continue, and we kept engaging, then I am 80% confident that I'd be able to predict other rhetoric that then presents itself as more recent layers of learned reflexive narrative talking points of belief are deconstructed. The problem is, this conversation in general, where everyone has the opportunity to put their points forward in a long-form format - over a lot of time, to create a single corpus for the layperson to follow along with and learn from - is prevented from happening; already pointed out to what the pro-Israel / arguably pro-genocide supporting side's (mislead primarily via manufactured consent) most recent "tip of the spear" move was Ben Shapiro/Daily Wire getting a gag order on Candace Owens - in secret - while publicly pretending to arrange a public debate between Shapiro and Owens - because propagandists know that too bright of a spotlight shown on their incongruent logic will start to shatter the veil of their blind followers. The fun part to all of this - or by fun I guess I mean what is exciting and good to look forward to, to work towards for the much brighter future coming: - In the future we'll train our own personal AI Avatars - and those avatars that are better trained will obliterate others less trained, if put up head-to-head in a conversation, say on Israel-Palestine; and then automated systems, trained initially by us, will be able to highlight the points of cognitive dissonance and/or incongruences in logic - in narrative statements presented; because this is tiring, but it is work - and work that is the most important work if you care about human life, human life as sacred vs. "kill Hamas at all costs" vs. - the reason you don't go full genocidal fascist behaviour is because it's possible - and in this case is the case - that heartless sociopath-psychopath authoritarians will pull strings towards manufacturing consent to deceive others into doing their evil bidding for them; it only took a handful of people to run the concentration-death camps in NaZi Germany - the rest of the Gestapo "just" gathered up the Jews, the crippled, etc, and loaded them onto trains - probably able to tell themselves Conclusions, How do you process the incongruence that interviews like this one - with head head of Israeli intelligence, is actually on the side of the Palestinians for what Israel/IDF has done and is doing to them: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/ Is it a fake video, fake interview? Do you think an ex-head of IDF's intelligence agency wouldn't know exactly 100% of the truth?