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I'm not a fan of Al Jazeera myself but this sets a very bad precedent. Israel is winning the war but they are being very short sighted among the decisions they

I'm not a fan of Al Jazeera myself but this sets a very bad precedent. Israel is winning the war but they are being very short sighted among the decisions they are making.

kelthuzad 2y ago
I wouldn't classify murdering 30k+ civilians (15k+ children), dropping bombs on entire families, being caught[0] executing civilians with drones in plain view, having israeli holocaust scholars and survivors describing israel's actions as "textbook-case of genocide"[1][2], the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state, as "winning", but you do you. [0] "Note that this footage permits no room for "it was a mistake," showing repeated, specifically-targeted strikes on the unarmed and even wounded. The sort of behavior the ICJ explicitly forbid in the genocide ruling against Israel." https://x.com/Snowden/status/1770936325996155290 https://x.com/Snowden/status/1770936325996155290 [1] Gaza 'Textbook Case of GENOCIDE' - Holocaust Scholar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUeEnjULHe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUeEnjULHe0 [2] Holocaust Survivor Tells Me: Israel Is Committing Genocide - w. Stephen Kapos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4PFmz4MNdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4PFmz4MNdg
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  Winning is based on war aims. Israel's were the return of captives and removal of Hamas. It is further along in those aims than it was in the aftermath of the October 7 attacks; that's fairly defined as winning. (Taken to the extreme, Nazi Germany was winning WWII in 1940.) > the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state Your other claims are true. This one is not.
  - kelthuzad 2y ago
    >> the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state >Your other claims are true. This one is not. I should have phrased that more precisely but I was just judging by what Israel's ministry of hasbara itself seems to be most concerned with and fears the most is people questioning israel's legitimacy. Combined with the sentiment that can be seen across social media where even regular folks have started seeing israel as a racist settler colonial project that has no legitimacy. But you're correct, my previous wording was too ambiguous since "the world" is too broad and can refer to too many things.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > the sentiment that can be seen across social media where even regular folks have started labelling israel as a racist settler colonial project that has no legitimacy A majority of Americans support Israel's war [1]. An overwhelming majority believe Israel has a right to exist [2]. (The exception being 18 to 24-year olds, among whom 31% believe Israel does not.) Israel has faced practically zero actual diplomatic consequences as a result of its war, with even those voting against it at the UN continuing to e.g. trade with and talk to it [3]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/ https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-i... [2] https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel
      - kelthuzad 2y ago
        >A majority of Americans support Israel; that fraction has actually grown recently [1] America is a special case and does not represent the regular folks of the world because it's home to the strongest israeli lobby on the planet and their supporters are mostly die-hard evangelicals for whom no evil israel does is too far. Just listen to Jonathan Greenblatt's admission in the leaked[1] conversation where he verbatim states: “We have a major, major, major generational problem, All the polling I’ve seen: the ADL’s polling, ICC’s polling, independent polling, suggests that this is not a left, right gap folks. The issue of the United States’ support of Israel is not left and right. It is young and old.” [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked_conversation_with_jonathon_greenblatt_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/...
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > America is a special case and does not represent the regular folks of the world Israel's net favourability is down globally [1]. But there is zero evidence it's losing legitimacy; very few countries flipped sign. Instead, it was countries that didn't like Israel a bit disliking them more. (And again, not to the degree of carrying policy consequences.) > issue of the United States’ support of Israel is not left and right. It is young and old Sure. 31% is a lot. But it's also still 31%. [1] https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/ https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opini...
  - cwkoss 2y ago
    I think you should be skeptical of the official state claims of war aims. It seems quite apparent that Israel's actions are working towards the goal of ethnic cleansing and land conquest.
  - megous 2y ago
    With the amount of unexploded munitions they're leaving there, they're supplying the future resistance's rocket and IED systems for the next 75 years. Also creating enough orphans and resentment for another orphan army to replace the current one. Winning?
- eBombzor 2y ago
  I meant winning in the context of military conflict. Obviously not in reputation.
  - kelthuzad 2y ago
    You're still conflating murdering civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure with "winning", but the resistance is quite safe in their tunnels and they are still fighting[0] back. It's also advisable to take Israel's casualty numbers with a huge grain of salt because they are contradictory to what's happening on the ground. Israel has not achieved any of its declared objectives (except for the Genocide) [0] Palestinian resistance weapons continue to evolve during genocide, with Jon Elmer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9OsxkttM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9OsxkttM0
- strathmeyer 2y ago
  When your neighbors are trying to ethnically cleanse you, surviving is winning.
- exe34 2y ago
  [flagged]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

I'm not a fan of Al Jazeera myself but this sets a very bad precedent. Israel is winning the war but they are being very short sighted among the decisions they are making.

kelthuzad 2y ago

I wouldn't classify murdering 30k+ civilians (15k+ children), dropping bombs on entire families, being caught[0] executing civilians with drones in plain view, having israeli holocaust scholars and survivors describing israel's actions as "textbook-case of genocide"[1][2], the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state, as "winning", but you do you. [0] "Note that this footage permits no room for "it was a mistake," showing repeated, specifically-targeted strikes on the unarmed and even wounded. The sort of behavior the ICJ explicitly forbid in the genocide ruling against Israel." https://x.com/Snowden/status/1770936325996155290 https://x.com/Snowden/status/1770936325996155290 [1] Gaza 'Textbook Case of GENOCIDE' - Holocaust Scholar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUeEnjULHe0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUeEnjULHe0 [2] Holocaust Survivor Tells Me: Israel Is Committing Genocide - w. Stephen Kapos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4PFmz4MNdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4PFmz4MNdg

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Winning is based on war aims. Israel's were the return of captives and removal of Hamas. It is further along in those aims than it was in the aftermath of the October 7 attacks; that's fairly defined as winning. (Taken to the extreme, Nazi Germany was winning WWII in 1940.) > the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state Your other claims are true. This one is not.
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  >> the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state >Your other claims are true. This one is not. I should have phrased that more precisely but I was just judging by what Israel's ministry of hasbara itself seems to be most concerned with and fears the most is people questioning israel's legitimacy. Combined with the sentiment that can be seen across social media where even regular folks have started seeing israel as a racist settler colonial project that has no legitimacy. But you're correct, my previous wording was too ambiguous since "the world" is too broad and can refer to too many things.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > the sentiment that can be seen across social media where even regular folks have started labelling israel as a racist settler colonial project that has no legitimacy A majority of Americans support Israel's war [1]. An overwhelming majority believe Israel has a right to exist [2]. (The exception being 18 to 24-year olds, among whom 31% believe Israel does not.) Israel has faced practically zero actual diplomatic consequences as a result of its war, with even those voting against it at the UN continuing to e.g. trade with and talk to it [3]. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-israel-has-valid-reasons-for-fighting-fewer-say-the-same-about-hamas/ https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-i... [2] https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycotts_of_Israel
    - kelthuzad 2y ago
      >A majority of Americans support Israel; that fraction has actually grown recently [1] America is a special case and does not represent the regular folks of the world because it's home to the strongest israeli lobby on the planet and their supporters are mostly die-hard evangelicals for whom no evil israel does is too far. Just listen to Jonathan Greenblatt's admission in the leaked[1] conversation where he verbatim states: “We have a major, major, major generational problem, All the polling I’ve seen: the ADL’s polling, ICC’s polling, independent polling, suggests that this is not a left, right gap folks. The issue of the United States’ support of Israel is not left and right. It is young and old.” [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked_conversation_with_jonathon_greenblatt_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/...
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > America is a special case and does not represent the regular folks of the world Israel's net favourability is down globally [1]. But there is zero evidence it's losing legitimacy; very few countries flipped sign. Instead, it was countries that didn't like Israel a bit disliking them more. (And again, not to the degree of carrying policy consequences.) > issue of the United States’ support of Israel is not left and right. It is young and old Sure. 31% is a lot. But it's also still 31%. [1] https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/ https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opini...
- cwkoss 2y ago
  I think you should be skeptical of the official state claims of war aims. It seems quite apparent that Israel's actions are working towards the goal of ethnic cleansing and land conquest.
- megous 2y ago
  With the amount of unexploded munitions they're leaving there, they're supplying the future resistance's rocket and IED systems for the next 75 years. Also creating enough orphans and resentment for another orphan army to replace the current one. Winning?
eBombzor 2y ago
I meant winning in the context of military conflict. Obviously not in reputation.
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  You're still conflating murdering civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure with "winning", but the resistance is quite safe in their tunnels and they are still fighting[0] back. It's also advisable to take Israel's casualty numbers with a huge grain of salt because they are contradictory to what's happening on the ground. Israel has not achieved any of its declared objectives (except for the Genocide) [0] Palestinian resistance weapons continue to evolve during genocide, with Jon Elmer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9OsxkttM0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9OsxkttM0
strathmeyer 2y ago
When your neighbors are trying to ethnically cleanse you, surviving is winning.
exe34 2y ago
[flagged]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]