7 ms·

I think it's neither surprising nor necessarily bad. Just think of how Russia Today was spreading disinformation and propaganda about the Russian invasion of Uk

I think it's neither surprising nor necessarily bad. Just think of how Russia Today was spreading disinformation and propaganda about the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest.

brabel 2y ago
It's disinformation according to the Government though, which is the same thing happening here with Israel, isn't it? Do you believe Al Jazeera is spreading misinformation? Even if Israel says so? Even if the USA starts saying so as well? I don't know where we can draw a line here.
- TheGuyWhoCodes 2y ago
  We can draw the line when they report proven false information and never apologize for reporting so. We can draw the line when they say one thing on English Al Jazeera and another on Arabic Al Jazeera. We can draw the line when their reporters were (since then eliminated) active member of Hamas rocket teams.
  - beyondCritics 2y ago
    Can you back up the implied claims with some references?
    - jolj 2y ago
      Not parent, but: 1. False report about IDF rape https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-report-alleging-idf-rapes-in-shifa-hospital-retracted/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-report-alleging-idf... 2. Arabic vs English Al Jazeera, conflicting messages https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2017/10/01/Al-Jazeera-English-vs-Al-Jazeera-Arabic-One-channel-two-messages https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2017/10/01/Al-Jazeer... https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/aljazeera-one-organization-two-messages https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/aljazeer... 3. Al Jazeera reporters doubling as Hamas members https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in-gaza-an-alleged-hamas-operative-flown-to-qatar/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in... https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-journalist-is-also-a-hamas-commander-idf-says/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-journalist-is-also-... https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921 https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921
      - SauciestGNU 2y ago
        Times of Israel is the media of a different belligerent in this conflict, why on earth should I trust them to debunk AJ anymore than I should trust AJ to truthfully report on Israel?
        jolj 2y ago
        The difference is that Times of Israel is privately owned, while Al Jazeera is operated by an authoritarian government. also the information I posted can be found in other places. However, if you think a government that promotes modern slavery is probably a good source for journalism, that's your choice to make.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        [flagged]
        jolj 2y ago
        about which part? The IDF rape claim was later denied by the same woman claiming it happened as well as an Al Jazeera journalist. https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088 https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088 However, Al Jazeera never corrected the story, just took it down, which is just as OP reported: "We can draw the line when they report proven false information and never apologize for reporting so."
      - adhamsalama 2y ago
        Al Jazeera is biased. Source: my biased side.
    - TheGuyWhoCodes 2y ago
      1. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/17/photos-an-israeli-air-raid-on-al-ahli-arab-hospital-kills-an-estimated-500 https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/17/photos-an-israe..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyNLvL_8SeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyNLvL_8SeY this was proven false by many sources other than Israel 2. You can just google Al Jazeera Arabic anti Israel propaganda and you will find more content to read and watch than you can do in your life time 3. https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in-gaza-an-alleged-hamas-operative-flown-to-qatar https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in... https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-accuses-al-jazeera-journalist-of-moonlighting-as-hamas-commander-5041680 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-accuses-al-jazeera-jo...
      - adhamsalama 2y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
  - amadeuspagel 2y ago
    > We can draw the line when they say one thing on English Al Jazeera and another on Arabic Al Jazeera. The vast majority of media companies that own media in different languages are on Al Jazeera's side of the line then, including most companies that have social media channels in different languages.
- dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
  It's possible to make a fair judgement about what a government is doing, and in many places people trust their government and accept their actions. But it's notable that the Israeli government refuses to submit itself to an election, especially in the face of widespread popular demands.
andsoitis 2y ago
> Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest. but you had no say in the matter; so if a future ban is not in your interest, what will you do? no, the government should not stifle the market of ideas. that is not in our interest in the long run.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > the government should not stifle the market of ideas America is uniquely individualistic, our First Amendment uniquely strong. I believe in it. But it's not clear it's the only optimum.
lukan 2y ago
"Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest." It is not in my interest, to become more like authorian russia for the sake of fighting them.
- Hoasi 2y ago
  Exactly. It’s undemocratic. It’s also unwise strategically.
  - forty 2y ago
    I know the whole radical free speech theory where everyone should be able to see all discourses and make their own informed opinion. The thing is, the facts are that propaganda and fake news are super effective. Probably a failure of western democracies to develop critical sense of their citizens, or the lake of preparation to the quick rise of social networks. And now far right are rising in Europe too, of course driven - in part - by Russian propaganda and fake news (and funding too). So I'm not sure what is the good solution now. I'd be happy if there were more money to fund school and lessons for children to understand how those fake news work. But this is long term. Short term I think I'm okay if we don't have RT in France.
    - lukan 2y ago
      "Short term I think I'm okay if we don't have RT in France." You do. On the internet. An increasing amount of people are getting their (fake) news now exclusivly online via "alternative" news sources like RT. Banning one of those sources on television will just mean further entrenching of those people. ("see, they don't want the truth to spread" ...) " I'd be happy if there were more money to fund school and lessons for children to understand how those fake news work." And aside to lots and lots of crap in the curriculum, there would be enough school time avaiable to teach more of criticial information analysis and media skills. But partial banning of one source seems like the more comfortable solution. Except that this might really hurt us in the long run, if the next source that will be banned, won't be enemy propaganda source, but just a legitimate critical newspaper for example. But secret service will say the enemy funded and influenced them, so off they go.
guappa 2y ago
If we had to ban every media that has said a half truth, we'd have no media at all. It wasn't in the interest of freedom. Everyone reading it would know it was the russian spin. But now we are not allowed to know what the russians think. After all thinking of them as humans like us is not something we want right?

brabel 2y ago

It's disinformation according to the Government though, which is the same thing happening here with Israel, isn't it? Do you believe Al Jazeera is spreading misinformation? Even if Israel says so? Even if the USA starts saying so as well? I don't know where we can draw a line here.

TheGuyWhoCodes 2y ago
We can draw the line when they report proven false information and never apologize for reporting so. We can draw the line when they say one thing on English Al Jazeera and another on Arabic Al Jazeera. We can draw the line when their reporters were (since then eliminated) active member of Hamas rocket teams.
- beyondCritics 2y ago
  Can you back up the implied claims with some references?
  - jolj 2y ago
    Not parent, but: 1. False report about IDF rape https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-report-alleging-idf-rapes-in-shifa-hospital-retracted/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-report-alleging-idf... 2. Arabic vs English Al Jazeera, conflicting messages https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2017/10/01/Al-Jazeera-English-vs-Al-Jazeera-Arabic-One-channel-two-messages https://english.alarabiya.net/News/gulf/2017/10/01/Al-Jazeer... https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/aljazeera-one-organization-two-messages https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/aljazeer... 3. Al Jazeera reporters doubling as Hamas members https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in-gaza-an-alleged-hamas-operative-flown-to-qatar/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in... https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-journalist-is-also-a-hamas-commander-idf-says/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/al-jazeera-journalist-is-also-... https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921 https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1756728159158812921
    - SauciestGNU 2y ago
      Times of Israel is the media of a different belligerent in this conflict, why on earth should I trust them to debunk AJ anymore than I should trust AJ to truthfully report on Israel?
      - jolj 2y ago
        The difference is that Times of Israel is privately owned, while Al Jazeera is operated by an authoritarian government. also the information I posted can be found in other places. However, if you think a government that promotes modern slavery is probably a good source for journalism, that's your choice to make.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        [flagged]
        jolj 2y ago
        about which part? The IDF rape claim was later denied by the same woman claiming it happened as well as an Al Jazeera journalist. https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088 https://twitter.com/abuhilalah/status/1771996521312973088 However, Al Jazeera never corrected the story, just took it down, which is just as OP reported: "We can draw the line when they report proven false information and never apologize for reporting so."
    - adhamsalama 2y ago
      Al Jazeera is biased. Source: my biased side.
  - TheGuyWhoCodes 2y ago
    1. https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/17/photos-an-israeli-air-raid-on-al-ahli-arab-hospital-kills-an-estimated-500 https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/17/photos-an-israe..., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyNLvL_8SeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyNLvL_8SeY this was proven false by many sources other than Israel 2. You can just google Al Jazeera Arabic anti Israel propaganda and you will find more content to read and watch than you can do in your life time 3. https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in-gaza-an-alleged-hamas-operative-flown-to-qatar https://www.timesofisrael.com/wounded-al-jazeera-reporter-in... https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-accuses-al-jazeera-journalist-of-moonlighting-as-hamas-commander-5041680 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-accuses-al-jazeera-jo...
    - adhamsalama 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- amadeuspagel 2y ago
  > We can draw the line when they say one thing on English Al Jazeera and another on Arabic Al Jazeera. The vast majority of media companies that own media in different languages are on Al Jazeera's side of the line then, including most companies that have social media channels in different languages.
dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
It's possible to make a fair judgement about what a government is doing, and in many places people trust their government and accept their actions. But it's notable that the Israeli government refuses to submit itself to an election, especially in the face of widespread popular demands.

andsoitis 2y ago

> Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest. but you had no say in the matter; so if a future ban is not in your interest, what will you do? no, the government should not stifle the market of ideas. that is not in our interest in the long run.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> the government should not stifle the market of ideas America is uniquely individualistic, our First Amendment uniquely strong. I believe in it. But it's not clear it's the only optimum.

lukan 2y ago

"Banning them from the EU was certainly in our interest." It is not in my interest, to become more like authorian russia for the sake of fighting them.

Hoasi 2y ago
Exactly. It’s undemocratic. It’s also unwise strategically.
- forty 2y ago
  I know the whole radical free speech theory where everyone should be able to see all discourses and make their own informed opinion. The thing is, the facts are that propaganda and fake news are super effective. Probably a failure of western democracies to develop critical sense of their citizens, or the lake of preparation to the quick rise of social networks. And now far right are rising in Europe too, of course driven - in part - by Russian propaganda and fake news (and funding too). So I'm not sure what is the good solution now. I'd be happy if there were more money to fund school and lessons for children to understand how those fake news work. But this is long term. Short term I think I'm okay if we don't have RT in France.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "Short term I think I'm okay if we don't have RT in France." You do. On the internet. An increasing amount of people are getting their (fake) news now exclusivly online via "alternative" news sources like RT. Banning one of those sources on television will just mean further entrenching of those people. ("see, they don't want the truth to spread" ...) " I'd be happy if there were more money to fund school and lessons for children to understand how those fake news work." And aside to lots and lots of crap in the curriculum, there would be enough school time avaiable to teach more of criticial information analysis and media skills. But partial banning of one source seems like the more comfortable solution. Except that this might really hurt us in the long run, if the next source that will be banned, won't be enemy propaganda source, but just a legitimate critical newspaper for example. But secret service will say the enemy funded and influenced them, so off they go.

guappa 2y ago

If we had to ban every media that has said a half truth, we'd have no media at all. It wasn't in the interest of freedom. Everyone reading it would know it was the russian spin. But now we are not allowed to know what the russians think. After all thinking of them as humans like us is not something we want right?