3 ms·

Yeah, I'm totally with you. At this point it's like the Hatfields and the McCoys. I don't care what was the last thing the other guy did - he did it to get ba

by qarl 2y ago

Yeah, I'm totally with you. At this point it's like the Hatfields and the McCoys. I don't care what was the last thing the other guy did - he did it to get back at you for the second to last thing you did. On the other hand, killing children is always wrong. Fucking stop it.

kelthuzad 2y ago
It's not a "cycle of violence" - "both sides" scenario for anyone who has actually put in the effort to study the history in detail. Since you brought up the "cycle of violence" argument, I remember Shaun making an excellent video[1] on the topic and also addressing that specific talking point. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k&t=10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k&t=10s
- qarl 2y ago
  I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
  - kelthuzad 2y ago
    You can disagree all you want, some people even disagree on if the holocaust happened but no one takes them seriously. The history of Zionism and its goal to colonize Palestine (long before the holocaust even happened) and their ruthless methods of colonization are thoroughly documented[0][1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun [1] The History of "Socialist" Zionism | Leftist Zionists did the Nakba & founded Israel https://youtu.be/ehp9PZo4UR0 https://youtu.be/ehp9PZo4UR0
    - qarl 2y ago
      > You can disagree all you want. Thanks!
underdeserver 2y ago
A man comes into your house. His 2-year old is in a baby carrier on his chest. He has a gun and is firing at you. Your wife and 5 year old son are behind you on the couch, and you have a gun too. Do you shoot back? Did you just hesitate? A bullet just scraped your wife on the side of the leg. Hesitated again? Son just got a bullet in his arm. You fire three bullets. The baby is dead and so is the intruder. Are you in the wrong here? --- I'm not saying this is the same as what's happening in Israel and Gaza. But "always wrong", like many views on this conflict, is sorely lacking in nuance. With thousands of Israelis and tens of thousands of Palestinians killed, ignoring nuance is disrespectful to their memories and will not lead to realistic progress.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > baby is dead and so is the intruder....Are you in the wrong here? Yes, what was done is wrong. It might be justified, even forgivable. But it's still wrong.
  - underdeserver 2y ago
    On that we agree. It is wrong. But you're either wrong or dead.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > It is wrong. But you're either wrong or dead. In your example, yes. Reality is more complicated; that usually gives reasonable people room to disagree.
- qarl 2y ago
  HEH. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Killing children is always wrong.

by qarl 2y ago

kelthuzad 2y ago

It's not a "cycle of violence" - "both sides" scenario for anyone who has actually put in the effort to study the history in detail. Since you brought up the "cycle of violence" argument, I remember Shaun making an excellent video[1] on the topic and also addressing that specific talking point. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k&t=10s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k&t=10s

qarl 2y ago
I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
- kelthuzad 2y ago
  You can disagree all you want, some people even disagree on if the holocaust happened but no one takes them seriously. The history of Zionism and its goal to colonize Palestine (long before the holocaust even happened) and their ruthless methods of colonization are thoroughly documented[0][1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun [1] The History of "Socialist" Zionism | Leftist Zionists did the Nakba & founded Israel https://youtu.be/ehp9PZo4UR0 https://youtu.be/ehp9PZo4UR0
  - qarl 2y ago
    > You can disagree all you want. Thanks!

underdeserver 2y ago

A man comes into your house. His 2-year old is in a baby carrier on his chest. He has a gun and is firing at you. Your wife and 5 year old son are behind you on the couch, and you have a gun too. Do you shoot back? Did you just hesitate? A bullet just scraped your wife on the side of the leg. Hesitated again? Son just got a bullet in his arm. You fire three bullets. The baby is dead and so is the intruder. Are you in the wrong here? --- I'm not saying this is the same as what's happening in Israel and Gaza. But "always wrong", like many views on this conflict, is sorely lacking in nuance. With thousands of Israelis and tens of thousands of Palestinians killed, ignoring nuance is disrespectful to their memories and will not lead to realistic progress.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> baby is dead and so is the intruder....Are you in the wrong here? Yes, what was done is wrong. It might be justified, even forgivable. But it's still wrong.
- underdeserver 2y ago
  On that we agree. It is wrong. But you're either wrong or dead.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > It is wrong. But you're either wrong or dead. In your example, yes. Reality is more complicated; that usually gives reasonable people room to disagree.
qarl 2y ago
HEH. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Killing children is always wrong.