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How much precedent is there for this? Are there parallels for other countries? Does the US prohibit any news agencies from operating in our borders? Does Eu
by nkurz 2y ago
How much precedent is there for this? Are there parallels for other countries? Does the US prohibit any news agencies from operating in our borders? Does Europe? Does Russia? Does China?
I presume North Korea does, but I don't actually know. These aren't designed to be leading questions. I don't know the answers, and rather than searching, I figured someone else here might know offhand.
- stoperaticless 2y agoTic toc was recently banned in US.
- LocalH 2y agoTik Tok isn't a news agency
- wudangmonk 2y agoIts not but it is being banned because people are getting their news from there and its not following the right narrative that the 'real' news agencies are failing at peddling to the public. Then again I could be wrong and the U.S government just doesn't like people people dancing, hard to tell which one is the reason behind it all.
- user982 2y agoThe congresspeople who voted to shut down TikTok have been very open about the reason: https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1787104142982283587 https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1787104142982283587
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- wudangmonk 2y agoWatching the clip is just the usual "Who you gonna believe? us our your lying eyes?". Thing is that the days of a media fully controlling the narrative are gone. Before it was easier since all you had were rumors of what was really going on but now anyone can take video and give direct proof, how are you going to Baghdad-Bob your way into the narrative you want?. The best they can aim for is trying to create a narrative that at least somewhat aligns with the reality that is impossible to fully hide now.
- nurple 2y agoLike sibling said, they've been pretty clear on the why. They called an emergency session and Senator Ricketts was pretty clear that they view pro-Palestinian tiktok content as Chinese propaganda that's inciting the youth to protest[0]. The administration has been threatening tiktok for two Presidental terms, but it wasn't until pro-Palestinian tiktok content had "more reach than the top 10 US news sites, combined" that they've taken broad bipartisan action. I've personally experienced the propaganda that US mainstream media doles out, I know it's real; in my mind this smacks of leaders reacting in fear to the erosion of control over what the American people can know about what's happening in the war. This lines up exactly with Israel's muting of Al Jazzera. Pretty amusing to watch sibling's link of Mitt Romney and the interviewer haltingly say "narrative" in hushed tones, like they know it's some kind of dirty word. The thing with propaganda is that it needs to have parts rooted in truth in order to be effective outside total information control; I consider the ability to consume everyone's propaganda an essential tool in distilling the most truth possible in a world where media and leadership across the world are openly concerned with the breakdown of their PR (read propaganda). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8apP1YYg2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8apP1YYg2o
- wslh 2y agoWhy not? Nowadays Tik Tok, Instagram, and X/Twitter have more influence than New York Times, at least for the younger generations. The medium is the message...
- Ecstatify 2y agoIt's a forced divestment; they weren't banned but have a year to comply.
- RobotToaster 2y agoEh, it's effectively the same thing. If Israel could force the sale of Al Jazeera to Israeli businesses I'm sure it's content would become far more acceptable to the Israeli government.
- verdverm 2y agoIt's only "effectively" the same thing if ByteDance / China decide to take the loss over selling. Also, the law could be changed or overruled in the next year. Don't count chickens before eggs hatch?
- verdverm 2y agoTikTok wasn't banned explicitly. They are required to divest within a year. If they don't, then the app becomes banned It is likely more countries will follow. India trail blazed by banning TikTok almost 4 years ago after the border skirmish with China
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> TikTok wasn't banned explicitly. They are required to divest within a year. If they don't, then the app becomes banned Note, too, the difference between the app being banned and the source being banned. TikTok.com will continue to resolve even if they remain under Chinese control.
- cma 2y agoHere Blinken and Romney discuss why Tiktok is being banned over allowing recommendations of Gaza coverage into people's feeds: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1ckte1k/secretary_of_state_anthony_blinken_agrees_with/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMajorityReport/comments/1ckte1k/... There were attempts at banning it before the war, so probably not the only reason but it does seem to be why the push to ban it reemerged again.
- cornedor 2y agoNot exactly the same, but rt.com is banned in the EU. However, I don't know how effective it is, since I can still visit it.
- megous 2y agoMaybe in theory, but there are no mechanisms or jurisdiction to enforce the ban in many countries. It's not like we have country wide firewall here. Blocks usually happen at ISP DNS server level, and that means very little these days.
- verdverm 2y agoWW2 provides ample examples. Information is part of warfare Russia is certainly jailing journalists. As example, Evan Gershkovich, a Wall Street Journal reporter, is currently imprisoned: https://www.wsj.com/news/evan-gershkovich https://www.wsj.com/news/evan-gershkovich. Nowadays, every country has an interest in preventing foreign influence operations across traditional and social media
- kergonath 2y ago> Russia is certainly jailing journalists It is also famously killing them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_i...
- rjtavares 2y agoRussia Today was banned in Ukraine in 2014 and in some (most?) EU countries in 2022.
- Ecstatify 2y agoAustria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Germany, Denmark, Estonia, Spain, Finland, France, United Kingdom, Greece, Croatia, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Latvia, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Slovenia, Slovakia,
- Animatronio 2y agoWrong! RT is available in Ro.
- Symbiote 2y agoYou can see the availability (without needing VPN etc) here. https://ooni.org/post/2024-eu-sanctions/ https://ooni.org/post/2024-eu-sanctions/
- aunetx 2y agoI believe RT (which is Russian but produced some interesting journalism once in a while) was banned in Europe (or at least it is in France). I don't even know what to think about it...
- RobotToaster 2y agoBoth Russia and Ukraine ban multiple news agencies, which hopefully doesn't indicate where this is heading. Also the United Kingdom has added several of it's own citizens to sanctions lists for journalism within Ukraine/Russia.
- Bullfight2Cond 2y agoRT was heavily censored in the USA and is banned in several European countries. Press censorship is pretty much the norm in 'western democracies' similar to everywhere else.
- kergonath 2y agoLike any decision, the difference is how it is made (e.g. a vote in parliament versus an executive order), how long it remains in force (a limited time while a investigation is done versus indefinitely), and how accountable the decision makers are. All countries are on a spectrum, there is no clear line between shiny democracy and brutal dictatorship. They all have institutions that look similar on the surface. A democracy is not going to stop having a police force just because some police states also have one, for example. So yes, some democracies ban some media spreading propaganda for foreign interests, but the details matter.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> RT was heavily censored in the USA Source?
- cma 2y agoI don't know of any outright censorship of it, but all US journalists who worked for it were no longer allowed to after the outbreak of the war. If money is speech under citizens united, then pay for journalism would seem like it could possibly be protected under the same standard, though I think election funding is still allowed to be banned from foreign states even if they use super-PACs.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> all US journalists who worked for it were no longer allowed to after the outbreak of the war Again, source?
- cma 2y agoI thought i heard Chris Hedges claim that, but it looks like YouTube removed them and it wasn't necessarily from the sanctions.
- newsclues 2y agoLots of democracy limit journalism during war.
- tredre3 2y agoThere's lots of precedent. We just have to look at the Ukraine-Russia war. Ukraine has shut down everything but the state-sponsored television. Russia has shut down most independent media since the beginning of the war as well. But admittedly, they are in a war of (dis)information so might not be representative of the freedom of the press.
- jeffbee 2y agoThe United States right of free speech is uniquely strong. That's why we're all just sitting here acting completely blase about bad faith propaganda destroying us.
- underdeserver 2y agoWell, Al Jazeera is or had been banned in many Arab countries. Also, this measure is temporary, only lasting 45 days.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThe article indicates the 45 days can be renewed. Presumably repeatedly.
- joecool1029 2y agoI'll try to tackle this as objectively as possible. Not many countries enshrine press freedom as a constitutional right. US can't directly shut down news agencies by law but there are other less direct ways to restrict their ability to operate (like not granting visas). The US has all sorts of fringe news outlets, including some run by cults like Falun Gong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tang_Dynasty_Television https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Tang_Dynasty_Television ) Europe likes to claim they support press freedom but they banned RT in many countries. Looking at the press freedom index my kneejerk is to rank a lot of their countries lower, but then I remembered there's a habit of suing or disappearing journalists in the US that probe into larger corps. As for Russia/DPRK/China, laws heavily restrict reporting. These are all way worse than Israel's current restrictions. DPRK has fully centralized mass media, so any other reporting inside is illegal by default without explicit approval of the state. China and Russia I think allows some reporting, basically anything appearing critical of nations of China or Russia can get you jailed/killed.
- gaoryrt 2y agoAlso one can get killed if he is a boeing whistleblower.
- dogma1138 2y agoRT and PressTV are banned in quite a few western countries.