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I'm with you when it comes to advocating against added sugars and spreading the word about how surprisingly resilient teeth are when given a good environment...

I'm with you when it comes to advocating against added sugars and spreading the word about how surprisingly resilient teeth are when given a good environment... but I do think you've hurt your own argument by overstating the case. First: Calculus forms within hours of eating just about any meal. Sugars make this much worse, but to a certain extent it is unavoidable. Regular appointments with a hygienist will improve your long-term dental health regardless of diet, though the necessary frequency can be decreased in many cases with a good diet. Second: Please don't stop brushing your teeth, especially if you want fewer dentist appointments. It's one of the cheapest and safest investments you can possibly make in your body. Just because you can't feel the plaque doesn't mean that it's not there. Third: Added sugars are just really, terribly bad for you in general. I'm speaking now to those that don't care much about their teeth: you can do so much for your long-term health by simply checking for this one thing on labels. I know it's an odd concept to think of added sugars as being so much worse than "natural" sugars when they're fundamentally the same molecules, but it's true -- the differences in solubility/bioavailability have a very outsized impact.

ornornor 2y ago
How do you tell of something has added sugars or not? The nutritional facts all lump it under “carbohydrates, of which sugars” without making a distinction between added sugar and the sugar that comes with the ingredients.
- chaorace 2y ago
  The label was updated in 2016. Please refer to the official FDA guide to the updated nutrition facts label[1], item #4. [1]: https://www.fda.gov/media/135197/download https://www.fda.gov/media/135197/download
  - ornornor 2y ago
    Nice, we don’t have this in Europe. It’s still all together.
    - chaorace 2y ago
      My mistake. I honestly thought we were one of the very last places to implement this change -- I know the viewpoint is still overly America-centric... just not in the usual way lol
- Theodores 2y ago
  Initially this is hard but then you soon realise that you are never buying processed food ever again and everything is a single ingredient food. There may be one or two exceptions and often tinned things have a preservative or an acidity regulator in there too. What this means is that there is no puzzling over food labels. If you are buying carrots then they are just carrots. Initially this seems a bit extreme as there seems to be nothing in the supermarket to buy. On my most recent trip I saw some of my former 'friends' including what was once my favourite frozen pizza. There was nothing toxic about it, once you have embraced home cooking, then nothing processed or ready made is satisfactory. In the case of the pizza, my home made pizza will be in a different league of taste, it might not be to everyone's liking but, for me, it will be like being on a drug high. I can't get that buzz from store bought food and it certainly does not list 'natural opiates released per bite' on the nutrition labels. When you seriously get into buying the vegetables, there is always so much that you have not bought or cooked with before. These things have always been there and they are not weird, but, for some reason you have not decided to cook with them in new and exciting ways. Processed meals mean you don't have to. Then you start mixing in herbs and all of the nutrition labels are left far, far behind. They have different meaning with processed food to real food made with single ingredient items, most of which are vegetables. Carbohydrates also shift from the cheap ones in processed food to being much better quality and best described as 'nutrient rich fibre'.
Theodores 2y ago
I take your points, including #2. The thing is that if brushing your teeth means a world of pain then you do it out of obligation and it is not a happy experience. However, if your teeth are good because there is no sucrose that ever goes anywhere near them in 'added form', then it becomes a pleasure to give them a quick polish. My point still stands though, there is a lot of money made from tooth related FUD and sugary food. I just wished a dentist had spilled the beans to me many decades ago that it really is simple to have excellent oral hygiene just be avoiding the added sugars, and, to a lesser extent, the processed food. Nowadays my teeth always feel good. I used to eat things like biscuits and crisps (chips) for my teeth to not feel great the next day, even if I had thoroughly brushed my teeth the night before. By every metric I just find the situation very different, the gums have definitely 'grown back' and I am sure some tartar is now below the gumline. If eating a diet that is essentially whole food, plant based with no added sugars or processed foods, then that means no preservatives. Many common preservatives kill bacteria, or specific bacteria such as 'anything but yeast'. This makes sense for shelf life but I am not sure it helps with the gastrointestinal tract, which includes the mouth. There are good bacteria and then there is the one that lives off sucrose to make plaque. If you are eating standard issue bakery products then you are killing off the bad guys whilst giving the yeast=like strains that live off sucrose a free pass. Incidentally, after I banished sugar from my home, I was reading the label of the toothpaste one day whilst brushing my teeth. And you will never guess what? Sugar. The cheek of it, putting sugar in toothpaste. That is perpetuating a problem that was being set out to be solved. Generally though, the no sugar under any circumstances rule has raised my baseline oral hygiene to the best that it has ever been. I cut coffee and dairy too, so it is not difficult or a challenge to put in the effort to get them really nice for when I am meeting someone. However, I no longer feel obligated to brush them twice a day lest they feel like they are falling out or 'covered in fur' the next morning. Regarding 'added sugars', what has to be understood is that every plant has sugar in it as does every animal. It is photosynthesis and glucose is the transport molecule for energy captured from the sun. It is not rocket science but I did not feel that any of this was explained to me very clearly at school or on any TV science program. But added sugars are the cuckoo in the nest of normal sugars, much like how chocolate Easter Eggs have very little to do eggs created by birds, lizards, amphibians and other animals. Yet some people conflate the two, particularly in online discussion.

ornornor 2y ago

How do you tell of something has added sugars or not? The nutritional facts all lump it under “carbohydrates, of which sugars” without making a distinction between added sugar and the sugar that comes with the ingredients.

chaorace 2y ago
The label was updated in 2016. Please refer to the official FDA guide to the updated nutrition facts label[1], item #4. [1]: https://www.fda.gov/media/135197/download https://www.fda.gov/media/135197/download
- ornornor 2y ago
  Nice, we don’t have this in Europe. It’s still all together.
  - chaorace 2y ago
    My mistake. I honestly thought we were one of the very last places to implement this change -- I know the viewpoint is still overly America-centric... just not in the usual way lol
Theodores 2y ago
Initially this is hard but then you soon realise that you are never buying processed food ever again and everything is a single ingredient food. There may be one or two exceptions and often tinned things have a preservative or an acidity regulator in there too. What this means is that there is no puzzling over food labels. If you are buying carrots then they are just carrots. Initially this seems a bit extreme as there seems to be nothing in the supermarket to buy. On my most recent trip I saw some of my former 'friends' including what was once my favourite frozen pizza. There was nothing toxic about it, once you have embraced home cooking, then nothing processed or ready made is satisfactory. In the case of the pizza, my home made pizza will be in a different league of taste, it might not be to everyone's liking but, for me, it will be like being on a drug high. I can't get that buzz from store bought food and it certainly does not list 'natural opiates released per bite' on the nutrition labels. When you seriously get into buying the vegetables, there is always so much that you have not bought or cooked with before. These things have always been there and they are not weird, but, for some reason you have not decided to cook with them in new and exciting ways. Processed meals mean you don't have to. Then you start mixing in herbs and all of the nutrition labels are left far, far behind. They have different meaning with processed food to real food made with single ingredient items, most of which are vegetables. Carbohydrates also shift from the cheap ones in processed food to being much better quality and best described as 'nutrient rich fibre'.

Theodores 2y ago

I take your points, including #2. The thing is that if brushing your teeth means a world of pain then you do it out of obligation and it is not a happy experience. However, if your teeth are good because there is no sucrose that ever goes anywhere near them in 'added form', then it becomes a pleasure to give them a quick polish. My point still stands though, there is a lot of money made from tooth related FUD and sugary food. I just wished a dentist had spilled the beans to me many decades ago that it really is simple to have excellent oral hygiene just be avoiding the added sugars, and, to a lesser extent, the processed food. Nowadays my teeth always feel good. I used to eat things like biscuits and crisps (chips) for my teeth to not feel great the next day, even if I had thoroughly brushed my teeth the night before. By every metric I just find the situation very different, the gums have definitely 'grown back' and I am sure some tartar is now below the gumline. If eating a diet that is essentially whole food, plant based with no added sugars or processed foods, then that means no preservatives. Many common preservatives kill bacteria, or specific bacteria such as 'anything but yeast'. This makes sense for shelf life but I am not sure it helps with the gastrointestinal tract, which includes the mouth. There are good bacteria and then there is the one that lives off sucrose to make plaque. If you are eating standard issue bakery products then you are killing off the bad guys whilst giving the yeast=like strains that live off sucrose a free pass. Incidentally, after I banished sugar from my home, I was reading the label of the toothpaste one day whilst brushing my teeth. And you will never guess what? Sugar. The cheek of it, putting sugar in toothpaste. That is perpetuating a problem that was being set out to be solved. Generally though, the no sugar under any circumstances rule has raised my baseline oral hygiene to the best that it has ever been. I cut coffee and dairy too, so it is not difficult or a challenge to put in the effort to get them really nice for when I am meeting someone. However, I no longer feel obligated to brush them twice a day lest they feel like they are falling out or 'covered in fur' the next morning. Regarding 'added sugars', what has to be understood is that every plant has sugar in it as does every animal. It is photosynthesis and glucose is the transport molecule for energy captured from the sun. It is not rocket science but I did not feel that any of this was explained to me very clearly at school or on any TV science program. But added sugars are the cuckoo in the nest of normal sugars, much like how chocolate Easter Eggs have very little to do eggs created by birds, lizards, amphibians and other animals. Yet some people conflate the two, particularly in online discussion.