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Investing a lot of time and trying really hard is not the same as adding a lot of value. If your users don't find value in your documentation, saying "But we sp

Investing a lot of time and trying really hard is not the same as adding a lot of value. If your users don't find value in your documentation, saying "But we spent a lot of time on it!" doesn't really change anything. And, to be clear, I have no idea if the person you're responding to's criticism is valid. But I also know that your response does not negate their criticism at all.

lopkeny12ko 2y ago
How about submitting a PR to improve the documentation instead of complaining about it?
- Thiez 2y ago
  This is why OSS looks like a cult at times. People are allowed to criticize your project and complain about it. They have no obligation to become a contributor. "Submit a PR" is such a conversation killer.
- alex_lav 2y ago
  Your adversarialism isn't a good look. Users are allowed to have opinions, this does not mean they have maintain the work themselves.
- joshmanders 2y ago
  Customer: I can't find anything I'm looking for in your store. Store: I spent a lot of time arranging things around in the store, if you can't find what you're looking for you can stop complaining and write signs for us. Customer: Or I can just use your competitor who actually cares about their customers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - nsteel 2y ago
    Except the relationship between stores, customers and competitors all revolves around money and doesn't make sense in this context.
    - joshmanders 2y ago
      The relationship around this is open source, users and alternatives. It may not be money but nobody writes open source for the github stars, they want users and if your users are frustrated they'll go to alternatives. - Former Traefik user who now uses Caddy.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- HellzStormer 2y ago
  I didn't use try Traefik's documentation, but the complains appear to be somewhat structural. Meaning a PR would need to possibly restructure at least part of the documentation, or add a whole section of documentation of a different type. You can't expect someone not core to a project to just propose to restructure the whole documentation. Which may also mean changing the website. And in any case, such overhaul coming from a "nobody" would very likely be rejected as being both too large or incomplete or not desirable. Re-structuring needs to be pushed for by at least one person from the core team. So yeah "Just submit a PR" in that context is not an answer, it's an excuse to avoid trying to understand the problem and actually improve the situation.
- barfbagginus 2y ago
  A PR needs maintainer approval. And the maintainer I've seen thinks the documents are good enough already. In cases like that, a PR might not be able to solve the problem. Complaining about it reroutes people to better projects, and pushes the project to fix the problem.

lopkeny12ko 2y ago

How about submitting a PR to improve the documentation instead of complaining about it?

Thiez 2y ago
This is why OSS looks like a cult at times. People are allowed to criticize your project and complain about it. They have no obligation to become a contributor. "Submit a PR" is such a conversation killer.
alex_lav 2y ago
Your adversarialism isn't a good look. Users are allowed to have opinions, this does not mean they have maintain the work themselves.
joshmanders 2y ago
Customer: I can't find anything I'm looking for in your store. Store: I spent a lot of time arranging things around in the store, if you can't find what you're looking for you can stop complaining and write signs for us. Customer: Or I can just use your competitor who actually cares about their customers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- nsteel 2y ago
  Except the relationship between stores, customers and competitors all revolves around money and doesn't make sense in this context.
  - joshmanders 2y ago
    The relationship around this is open source, users and alternatives. It may not be money but nobody writes open source for the github stars, they want users and if your users are frustrated they'll go to alternatives. - Former Traefik user who now uses Caddy.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
HellzStormer 2y ago
I didn't use try Traefik's documentation, but the complains appear to be somewhat structural. Meaning a PR would need to possibly restructure at least part of the documentation, or add a whole section of documentation of a different type. You can't expect someone not core to a project to just propose to restructure the whole documentation. Which may also mean changing the website. And in any case, such overhaul coming from a "nobody" would very likely be rejected as being both too large or incomplete or not desirable. Re-structuring needs to be pushed for by at least one person from the core team. So yeah "Just submit a PR" in that context is not an answer, it's an excuse to avoid trying to understand the problem and actually improve the situation.
barfbagginus 2y ago
A PR needs maintainer approval. And the maintainer I've seen thinks the documents are good enough already. In cases like that, a PR might not be able to solve the problem. Complaining about it reroutes people to better projects, and pushes the project to fix the problem.