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It's been my experience that software developers can be wildly successful not knowing or using any deep magic like this. Still, I think this stuff is good to k

It's been my experience that software developers can be wildly successful not knowing or using any deep magic like this. Still, I think this stuff is good to know. Edit: Oh, I should have used "elemental" instead. That might have gotten my point across better—underpinnings, not trivia.

margalabargala 2y ago
I would argue it's still too much (and not useful) to expect most people to be able to do this. Understand, yes. Good software engineers and computer scientists should be able to read this blog and fully understand what's happening, modulo any clojure-specific syntax they might be unfamiliar with. But this isn't something people should be expected to able to already know how to up and do.
- xenophonf 2y ago
  So this is interesting. ABET says that an accredited computer science program must include "substantial coverage" of "concepts of programming languages" (https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-computing-programs-2023-2024/ https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/cr...). However, an ABET-accredited software engineering program has no such requirement (https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-engineering-programs-2022-2023/ https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/cr...). I still think a software engineer should know this stuff, but given the other material covered in an accredited degree program, there probably isn't enough time for computer science fundamentals like programming language concepts. That's a damn shame. I think software engineers having that level of understanding is a good thing.
  - vsnf 2y ago
    PLT was part of my CS degree, but only as a senior level course, and it was extremely abstract, and extremely difficult. Double majors (common with business) were exempt from it. I think it’s fair to say that almost none of my fellow CS degree holders from that cohort (which was neither a rinky-dink program nor full of dim witted students) could do what we’re discussing here, and if they can it’s because they either were uniquely talented at the lecture material or learned it outside of their coursework, probably after graduation.

margalabargala 2y ago

I would argue it's still too much (and not useful) to expect most people to be able to do this. Understand, yes. Good software engineers and computer scientists should be able to read this blog and fully understand what's happening, modulo any clojure-specific syntax they might be unfamiliar with. But this isn't something people should be expected to able to already know how to up and do.

xenophonf 2y ago
So this is interesting. ABET says that an accredited computer science program must include "substantial coverage" of "concepts of programming languages" (https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-computing-programs-2023-2024/ https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/cr...). However, an ABET-accredited software engineering program has no such requirement (https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-engineering-programs-2022-2023/ https://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-criteria/cr...). I still think a software engineer should know this stuff, but given the other material covered in an accredited degree program, there probably isn't enough time for computer science fundamentals like programming language concepts. That's a damn shame. I think software engineers having that level of understanding is a good thing.
- vsnf 2y ago
  PLT was part of my CS degree, but only as a senior level course, and it was extremely abstract, and extremely difficult. Double majors (common with business) were exempt from it. I think it’s fair to say that almost none of my fellow CS degree holders from that cohort (which was neither a rinky-dink program nor full of dim witted students) could do what we’re discussing here, and if they can it’s because they either were uniquely talented at the lecture material or learned it outside of their coursework, probably after graduation.