6 ms·

Tangential, but the line saying: "smiles are always free" reminds me of the often overlooked cost of emotional labour performed especially by the service indust

Tangential, but the line saying: "smiles are always free" reminds me of the often overlooked cost of emotional labour performed especially by the service industry. We should also acknowledge this small thing.

jareklupinski 2y ago
> "smiles are always free" you're not wrong; nothing is free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_mask_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_mask_syndrome > ...subjects develop depression and physical illness as a result of prolonged, unnatural smiling.
pizzafeelsright 2y ago
I am so far removed from this now that it feels foreign to me. In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent. It's fine to be angry or sad, just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug. I expect the emotional exercise to help workout the management of emotions and adjusting of attitude.
- lukevp 2y ago
  Your house sounds a little toxic. I couldn’t tell in your post if you were positive or negative toward this, but it sounds like a denial of human emotion. Why would anyone ban crying? Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon. I'm not familiar with that. What is it?
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6iKKoKyBM&list=OLAK5uy_lKHGV8q5SQ2HhnELmuOdf462IITfXRVDY&index=5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6iKKoKyBM&list=OLAK5uy_lKH... https://genius.com/Original-broadway-cast-of-the-book-of-mormon-turn-it-off-lyrics https://genius.com/Original-broadway-cast-of-the-book-of-mor... https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1686764,1686764 https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1686764,1686764 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_suppression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_suppression
  - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
    Emotions are real and to be well managed. There's a time to cry. Working with adults who cry when their work or effort is brought under examination will lead to a toxic work environment. I'm not Mormon. Not familiar with the culture.
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      I'm curious about this system as it exists in your house. Who gets to decide when the time to cry is?
      - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
        Me, mostly. Crying is fine in your room or the shower. Jesus cried twice in three years. There is a time and a place.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        pizzafeelsright 2y ago
        The household. Me, wife, kids.
        kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Does it extend to other forms of emotional expression?
        pizzafeelsright 2y ago
        I suppose. Good question. Gloating isn't permitted. Most of the discussion and instruction are related to being able to integrate well with others. I'm weird. Everyone is a little odd. Quirks aren't wrong but can be unattractive or situational inappropriate. Guidance is given.
        kelseyfrog 2y ago
- mynegation 2y ago
  > In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent. Having grown up in a house like that and re-learning to express my feelings and being able to empathize with people close to me later in life - I ask you to take a harder look at that stance.
  - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
    You've expressed your emotions. I expressed mine. I appreciate your encouragement. I wasn't taught that attitude was a choice. It was hard learned over many failures. My stress evaporated. My anxieties faded.
    - saulpw 2y ago
      Maybe "attitude is a choice" when learned as an adult is a relief, but when learned as a child is oppressive.
- wrs 2y ago
  Not sure if you mean that literally…“no crying” sounds like a very bad idea even for an adult. I trust you mean more like “no hysterical tantrums”.
  - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
    Crying for pain is fine. Crying for emotional manipulation is not permitted. The kids can turn off the tears when they want if the manipulation is shown as ineffective
    - 2four2 2y ago
      When you put it this way, it seems more reasonable. Obviously you shouldn't reward or validate tantrums. At the same time, however, empathy is an easy way to acknowledge misplaced emotional reactions without encouraging them. Meeting a tantrum with "I know you don't like the taste of vegetables, but they're an important part of growing up and you must eat them before having sweets." is different from "In this house, you cannot cry if there's no real pain." There's no fine line between valid responses and manipulation. For manipulators, the pain FEELS real. The pain is a part of a learned behavior. Guiding those feelings instead of making a hard rule cutoff will have better results and build better trust.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      This is the fine line all parents walk. On the one hand, I agree that it is important for children to learn that manipulation is not the best way to get the things that they want. On the other hand, I think it is also important for them to learn that they can trust their parents to be there for them when they truly feel they have a problem, even if it isn't physical pain, and even if it is really quite silly. But you don't want them to learn that they can't trust you, because someday they might have problems that aren't silly. Today it might be "the socks you picked out for me aren't the right color and the boys at school will make fun of them". But tomorrow it might be a developing drinking or drug problem or early signs that a romantic interest is becoming abusive. If they learn they can't bug you about the socks, they might also learn that they can't bug you about those things either.
- squigz 2y ago
  > just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug. Your kids can't cry, or complain? And they have to give someone a hug even if they don't want to? This all seems very unhealthy long-term.
  - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
    They can cry if they have a good reason. Complaining? No. That's not tolerated. Life can be much harder so if they complain their life gets much more difficult and suddenly complaints stop. No matter what, if they request a hug they get one. Mid punishment? During correction? They want a hug? Absolutely. Love and affection will never be denied.
- richie_adler 2y ago
  Forbidding the expression of whole categories of feeling and encouraging falsehood in the expression of affection is revolting.
- rvba 2y ago
  Poor kids
- sanderjd 2y ago
  This sounds like a very bad idea to me. If a request for a hug must be granted, how does one express the real emotional cluster of "I want to hug you"? Do you think the people you most admire in your own life and in the broader world, both current and historical, have emotional artificiality deeply engrained in them? For me, that is very much not the case.
Cerium 2y ago
I agree with the introduction, but that line was the last I read in the article.
- qup 2y ago
  Do you always stop reading when you disagree?
  - Cerium 2y ago
    No - and I would not characterize my lack of interest in this article as disagreement. Labeling the cost of a smile as "free" demonstrates a lack of empathy or breadth of experience that I find distasteful and would prefer not to be part of a readership to.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      I think the point people have made about this is a good one, but that your take here seems very overblown.
cyberax 2y ago
The other problem: if you always smile, then you never smile. A smile transforms from a sign of affection into just another mandatory part of a uniform.

jareklupinski 2y ago

> "smiles are always free" you're not wrong; nothing is free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_mask_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile_mask_syndrome > ...subjects develop depression and physical illness as a result of prolonged, unnatural smiling.

pizzafeelsright 2y ago

I am so far removed from this now that it feels foreign to me. In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent. It's fine to be angry or sad, just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug. I expect the emotional exercise to help workout the management of emotions and adjusting of attitude.

lukevp 2y ago
Your house sounds a little toxic. I couldn’t tell in your post if you were positive or negative toward this, but it sounds like a denial of human emotion. Why would anyone ban crying? Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > Sounds like the “turn it off” approach from the Book of Mormon. I'm not familiar with that. What is it?
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mormon_(musical) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6iKKoKyBM&list=OLAK5uy_lKHGV8q5SQ2HhnELmuOdf462IITfXRVDY&index=5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_6iKKoKyBM&list=OLAK5uy_lKH... https://genius.com/Original-broadway-cast-of-the-book-of-mormon-turn-it-off-lyrics https://genius.com/Original-broadway-cast-of-the-book-of-mor... https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1686764,1686764 https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1686764,1686764 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_suppression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_suppression
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  Emotions are real and to be well managed. There's a time to cry. Working with adults who cry when their work or effort is brought under examination will lead to a toxic work environment. I'm not Mormon. Not familiar with the culture.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    I'm curious about this system as it exists in your house. Who gets to decide when the time to cry is?
    - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
      Me, mostly. Crying is fine in your room or the shower. Jesus cried twice in three years. There is a time and a place.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - pizzafeelsright 2y ago
        The household. Me, wife, kids.
        kelseyfrog 2y ago
        Does it extend to other forms of emotional expression?
        pizzafeelsright 2y ago
        I suppose. Good question. Gloating isn't permitted. Most of the discussion and instruction are related to being able to integrate well with others. I'm weird. Everyone is a little odd. Quirks aren't wrong but can be unattractive or situational inappropriate. Guidance is given.
      - kelseyfrog 2y ago
mynegation 2y ago
> In my house we must have a good attitude or be silent. Having grown up in a house like that and re-learning to express my feelings and being able to empathize with people close to me later in life - I ask you to take a harder look at that stance.
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  You've expressed your emotions. I expressed mine. I appreciate your encouragement. I wasn't taught that attitude was a choice. It was hard learned over many failures. My stress evaporated. My anxieties faded.
  - saulpw 2y ago
    Maybe "attitude is a choice" when learned as an adult is a relief, but when learned as a child is oppressive.
wrs 2y ago
Not sure if you mean that literally…“no crying” sounds like a very bad idea even for an adult. I trust you mean more like “no hysterical tantrums”.
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  Crying for pain is fine. Crying for emotional manipulation is not permitted. The kids can turn off the tears when they want if the manipulation is shown as ineffective
  - 2four2 2y ago
    When you put it this way, it seems more reasonable. Obviously you shouldn't reward or validate tantrums. At the same time, however, empathy is an easy way to acknowledge misplaced emotional reactions without encouraging them. Meeting a tantrum with "I know you don't like the taste of vegetables, but they're an important part of growing up and you must eat them before having sweets." is different from "In this house, you cannot cry if there's no real pain." There's no fine line between valid responses and manipulation. For manipulators, the pain FEELS real. The pain is a part of a learned behavior. Guiding those feelings instead of making a hard rule cutoff will have better results and build better trust.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    This is the fine line all parents walk. On the one hand, I agree that it is important for children to learn that manipulation is not the best way to get the things that they want. On the other hand, I think it is also important for them to learn that they can trust their parents to be there for them when they truly feel they have a problem, even if it isn't physical pain, and even if it is really quite silly. But you don't want them to learn that they can't trust you, because someday they might have problems that aren't silly. Today it might be "the socks you picked out for me aren't the right color and the boys at school will make fun of them". But tomorrow it might be a developing drinking or drug problem or early signs that a romantic interest is becoming abusive. If they learn they can't bug you about the socks, they might also learn that they can't bug you about those things either.
squigz 2y ago
> just no crying or whining. Every request for a hug must be met with a hug. Your kids can't cry, or complain? And they have to give someone a hug even if they don't want to? This all seems very unhealthy long-term.
- pizzafeelsright 2y ago
  They can cry if they have a good reason. Complaining? No. That's not tolerated. Life can be much harder so if they complain their life gets much more difficult and suddenly complaints stop. No matter what, if they request a hug they get one. Mid punishment? During correction? They want a hug? Absolutely. Love and affection will never be denied.
richie_adler 2y ago
Forbidding the expression of whole categories of feeling and encouraging falsehood in the expression of affection is revolting.
rvba 2y ago
Poor kids
sanderjd 2y ago
This sounds like a very bad idea to me. If a request for a hug must be granted, how does one express the real emotional cluster of "I want to hug you"? Do you think the people you most admire in your own life and in the broader world, both current and historical, have emotional artificiality deeply engrained in them? For me, that is very much not the case.

Cerium 2y ago

I agree with the introduction, but that line was the last I read in the article.

qup 2y ago
Do you always stop reading when you disagree?
- Cerium 2y ago
  No - and I would not characterize my lack of interest in this article as disagreement. Labeling the cost of a smile as "free" demonstrates a lack of empathy or breadth of experience that I find distasteful and would prefer not to be part of a readership to.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    I think the point people have made about this is a good one, but that your take here seems very overblown.

cyberax 2y ago

The other problem: if you always smile, then you never smile. A smile transforms from a sign of affection into just another mandatory part of a uniform.