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I'm using testing for the last decade, and it's pretty solid. Testing received the bulk of the "-t64" packages last week (~1.200), and the update went pretty sm

I'm using testing for the last decade, and it's pretty solid. Testing received the bulk of the "-t64" packages last week (~1.200), and the update went pretty smoothly. Testing and unstable requires a bit more experience to drive daily, but neither of them just collapses into a pile of smoking ash with an update. They're pretty stable and usable. I didn't reinstall any testing systems since I started using them. The only thing about Testing and unstable is: "None of them receives security updates. They are not intended for internet facing production systems".

binkHN 3y ago
Did you just run apt update && apt full-upgrade and all went well?
- okl 3y ago
  For me, aptitude showed a bunch of conflicts but when I selected all the required -t64 ones manually, they disappeared. Guess the algorithm is not so great at resolving the changes seamlessly. Hope that changes until the packets move to stable.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  It removed the Bluetooth stack once, because I didn't look at the packages being removed. Other than that, other two big upgrades (~350 & ~550 packages each) went smoothly. It removes tons of libraries and installs "t64" versions, so small glitches like this is expected in testing. Stable will iron out all of them.
  - binkHN 3y ago
    Yeah, I noticed these t64 versions. Do you know if these t64 versions will forever have t64 in the package name? Or will they, one day, revert to their previous package names with the t64 removed?
    - seba_dos1 3y ago
      I'd expect packages to drop the suffix at their next ABI version bump, which changes the package name anyway.
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      They'll probably remove the t64 suffix when all packages are migrated and t64 becomes the norm. However, I didn't dig the list too much to see what they're planning.
josephcsible 3y ago
That lack of security updates is the only reason that I'm not using Debian testing or unstable as my daily driver at home.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  If it's behind a NAT, there's no serious risk since they can't reach you, but if there's nothing between you and the internet, then it becomes a problem.
  - kaliszad 3y ago
    Please don't spread these false assurances. Yes, the probability of being attacked is less but it is a false sense of security. Nowadays, you download loads of code from the internet just by navigating to a website using the web browser. Are you 100% sure there is no bug in the sandbox? How about all the other protocols on your computer, or all the other computers on the same "internal" network. Are you sure, those are 100% resistant too?
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      Well, Kernel follows the upstream fairly well, so unless something catastrophic like Spectre and the like happens, you follow the upstream closely. Currently Testing runs 6.7.12 from April, 24. Firefox follows upstream from 24-48h behind, unless something big like t64 transition is happening (which happens once every 5 years or so). Unstable currently provides 125.0.3. If you wish, you can use Mozilla's official Firefox builds updates which arrive as soon as new versions are released. However, Debian hardens Firefox to its own standards. Other libraries and everything follows pretty close to upstream when the distro is not frozen for release. Also, Stable has the "Patches in 24h even if upstream doesn't provide" guarantee (which we have seen during Bash's RCE bug). This is what testing and unstable lacks. So, it's no FUD. It's nuanced. As I said before. Using testing and unstable needs some experience and understanding how a distribution works. Stable is install and forget. > or all the other computers on the same "internal" network. Considering we manage all the other computers in the same internal network, I'm sure they're fine. They all run prod-ready software. Some BSD, rest is Linux.

binkHN 3y ago

Did you just run apt update && apt full-upgrade and all went well?

okl 3y ago
For me, aptitude showed a bunch of conflicts but when I selected all the required -t64 ones manually, they disappeared. Guess the algorithm is not so great at resolving the changes seamlessly. Hope that changes until the packets move to stable.
bayindirh 3y ago
It removed the Bluetooth stack once, because I didn't look at the packages being removed. Other than that, other two big upgrades (~350 & ~550 packages each) went smoothly. It removes tons of libraries and installs "t64" versions, so small glitches like this is expected in testing. Stable will iron out all of them.
- binkHN 3y ago
  Yeah, I noticed these t64 versions. Do you know if these t64 versions will forever have t64 in the package name? Or will they, one day, revert to their previous package names with the t64 removed?
  - seba_dos1 3y ago
    I'd expect packages to drop the suffix at their next ABI version bump, which changes the package name anyway.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    They'll probably remove the t64 suffix when all packages are migrated and t64 becomes the norm. However, I didn't dig the list too much to see what they're planning.

josephcsible 3y ago

That lack of security updates is the only reason that I'm not using Debian testing or unstable as my daily driver at home.

bayindirh 3y ago
If it's behind a NAT, there's no serious risk since they can't reach you, but if there's nothing between you and the internet, then it becomes a problem.
- kaliszad 3y ago
  Please don't spread these false assurances. Yes, the probability of being attacked is less but it is a false sense of security. Nowadays, you download loads of code from the internet just by navigating to a website using the web browser. Are you 100% sure there is no bug in the sandbox? How about all the other protocols on your computer, or all the other computers on the same "internal" network. Are you sure, those are 100% resistant too?
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    Well, Kernel follows the upstream fairly well, so unless something catastrophic like Spectre and the like happens, you follow the upstream closely. Currently Testing runs 6.7.12 from April, 24. Firefox follows upstream from 24-48h behind, unless something big like t64 transition is happening (which happens once every 5 years or so). Unstable currently provides 125.0.3. If you wish, you can use Mozilla's official Firefox builds updates which arrive as soon as new versions are released. However, Debian hardens Firefox to its own standards. Other libraries and everything follows pretty close to upstream when the distro is not frozen for release. Also, Stable has the "Patches in 24h even if upstream doesn't provide" guarantee (which we have seen during Bash's RCE bug). This is what testing and unstable lacks. So, it's no FUD. It's nuanced. As I said before. Using testing and unstable needs some experience and understanding how a distribution works. Stable is install and forget. > or all the other computers on the same "internal" network. Considering we manage all the other computers in the same internal network, I'm sure they're fine. They all run prod-ready software. Some BSD, rest is Linux.